Ann Sothern

[HarryCarter]

I figure the Countess should get her own thread. Continued from the Pat Carroll thread...

I think with just a little reworking the plot of "Lady in a Cage" could have been turned into a pretty good "here's Lucy" with that "Cops and robbers" guy in the james Caan role.

 

Speaking of closets and "Cage", Sade was locked in one and as far as anyone in the movie is concerned she's still in there! There was a scene where they kill Sade but it was cut. There's something a little unseemly about "Lady in a Cage" that keeps it from being classier---maybe the eye-gouging shot. But Ann's performance was A+. Even more oscar-worthy was her lead in "The Killing Kind" from 1973 or 74.

 

I think keeping the Countess's appearances to a handful a season was a better idea than having Ann as a weekly regular. She was always a welcome addition, but better a guest star than a weekly co-star. I wish her appearances had continued. When I talked to Howard McClay during the 5th season of "here's Lucy"'s, I specifically suggested bringing back Ann. His response: "she has a weight problem"...That "weight" issue again! Honestly, it's not like she was as big as Orson Welles. It must have been something else besides the "My Mother, the Car" excuse because that was strictly voice over work and wouldn't have cut into her availability. (Had she appeared on screen, they would have had to change the title to "My Mother, the Winnebago"--sorry, these are just too hard to resist).

 

I know Ann was one of those considered from "Mame", but I can't imagine at that point she actually turned down a chance to light up Broadway. I've never heard that the producers were serious about her. She did play "Mame" for an extended run in 1969 in Honolulu and was a smash.

 

Glad you got my closet reference. I'd cast Sid Gould as Ann's co-conspirator in your Here's Lucy remake. Sid and Ann reportedly dated while cousin Gary was courting Lucy. I've never seen The Killing Kind. I'll have to track it down. Has anyone ever seen The Little Dragons starring Ann and CHARLES LANE? I never have. I believe it's Charlie's only starring role in a film.

 

I agree with you that Ann would have been better as an occasional player rather than a full-time co-star. In 1973, Ann had was hit with a piece of scenery during a dinner theater production of Everybody Loves Opal. That limited her mobility for the rest of her life. I guess that would have prevented her from making an appearance during season six of Here's Lucy if Howard McClay had listened (which he should have!) She seems to move pretty well in 1975's Crazy Mama, though.

 

The columnists in the fall of 1965 were buzzing that Ann would be Mame. She was reported to have lost 28 pounds at the time. A bio about Ann claims she turned down the offer. If that is indeed true, perhaps she didn't want to move to New York?

[leenorman]

I figure the Countess should get her own thread. Continued from the Pat Carroll thread...

 

 

Glad you got my closet reference. I'd cast Sid Gould as Ann's co-conspirator in your Here's Lucy remake. Sid and Ann reportedly dated while cousin Gary was courting Lucy. I've never seen The Killing Kind. I'll have to track it down. Has anyone ever seen The Little Dragons starring Ann and CHARLES LANE? I never have. I believe it's Charlie's only starring role in a film.

 

I agree with you that Ann would have been better as an occasional player rather than a full-time co-star. In 1973, Ann had was hit with a piece of scenery during a dinner theater production of Everybody Loves Opal. That limited her mobility for the rest of her life. I guess that would have prevented her from making an appearance during season six of Here's Lucy if Howard McClay had listened (which he should have!) She seems to move pretty well in 1975's Crazy Mama, though.

 

The columnists in the fall of 1965 were buzzing that Ann would be Mame. She was reported to have lost 28 pounds at the time. A bio about Ann claims she turned down the offer. If that is indeed true, perhaps she didn't want to move to New York?

 

Thanks for this, Harry: I ALWAYS LOVED ANN; Private Secretary, particularly, because that's what I wanted to be my entire childhood, since my 'beloved' auntie was and that's what I wanted to be....

[C L A U D E]

I figure the Countess should get her own thread. Continued from the Pat Carroll thread...

 

 

Glad you got my closet reference. I'd cast Sid Gould as Ann's co-conspirator in your Here's Lucy remake. Sid and Ann reportedly dated while cousin Gary was courting Lucy. I've never seen The Killing Kind. I'll have to track it down. Has anyone ever seen The Little Dragons starring Ann and CHARLES LANE? I never have. I believe it's Charlie's only starring role in a film.

 

I agree with you that Ann would have been better as an occasional player rather than a full-time co-star. In 1973, Ann had was hit with a piece of scenery during a dinner theater production of Everybody Loves Opal. That limited her mobility for the rest of her life. I guess that would have prevented her from making an appearance during season six of Here's Lucy if Howard McClay had listened (which he should have!) She seems to move pretty well in 1975's Crazy Mama, though.

 

The columnists in the fall of 1965 were buzzing that Ann would be Mame. She was reported to have lost 28 pounds at the time. A bio about Ann claims she turned down the offer. If that is indeed true, perhaps she didn't want to move to New York?

OMG, the poor thing dated sid gould, how sad!

[C L A U D E]

Thanks for this, Harry: I ALWAYS LOVED ANN; Private Secretary, particularly, because that's what I wanted to be my entire childhood, since my 'beloved' auntie was and that's what I wanted to be....

Yeah, we never missed ANYTHING she was in at our house too, she was beloved!

[Mot Morenzi]

Thanks for this, Harry: I ALWAYS LOVED ANN

 

Barbara Eden begs to differ

[C L A U D E]

Barbara Eden begs to differ

Oh yeah, forgot about those stories, LOL!

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

OMG what happened.with Southren and Eden???? How ... Why.... Ann and Sid???? Jesus!!!!! Thats worse than Lucy and Gary!!

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

I love everytime Ann appeared.with Lucy especially when they fix.the old.mansion. Viv Lucy Ann and Gale.. great funny show

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

Sothren not Southren srry didn't proof properly

[Neil]

Somehow missed this one.....

The notion of classy Ann reduced to dating....well, UNclassy Sid is indeed cringe-inducing. But wouldn't Sid and Vanda have been married by then?

Poor Ann, first her TV series gets cancelled and then THIS.

I hadn't read that Ann was a front-runner for Mame in 1966 but she would have been fantastic. Doubtful that she would have turned down an offer to star on Broadway. She did it for an extended run in Honolulu in 1969. Too bad she wasn't one of the replacement Mames. She was certainly a bigger name than some of them: Jane Morgan and Janice Paige. (Looked up mame in wiki to find this and didn't realize the 1983 revival with Angela ran only 41 performances!! The short run was parodied by the Forbidden Broadway people who turned "If He Walked..." into "If the Show had Run Past Labor Day"---which included the lyric: "Should I have walked out on it all/ And let Lucille Ball/ Wreck the show again.")

I think there's more of a story there about why Ann never appeared in another Lucy Show. The reason I've heard is Ann went to "My Mother the Car" but that was strictly VO work and wouldn't have put a crimp in her schedule.

Also heard that Ann was approached as a regular but wanted co-star status....which considering her history of stardom was not an unreasonable request, but Lucy was big enough on her own that she didn't need to share top billing. Nothing was preventing her from continuing the Rosy character on a 3 or 4 episode per season basis which is why I think there's more to the story.

 

By the way, is there some union-rule difference between being billed as Guest Star as opposed to Special Guest Star? Is it just prestige or does it affect what a performer gets paid?

 

I figure the Countess should get her own thread. Continued from the Pat Carroll thread...

 

 

Glad you got my closet reference. I'd cast Sid Gould as Ann's co-conspirator in your Here's Lucy remake. Sid and Ann reportedly dated while cousin Gary was courting Lucy. I've never seen The Killing Kind. I'll have to track it down. Has anyone ever seen The Little Dragons starring Ann and CHARLES LANE? I never have. I believe it's Charlie's only starring role in a film.

 

I agree with you that Ann would have been better as an occasional player rather than a full-time co-star. In 1973, Ann had was hit with a piece of scenery during a dinner theater production of Everybody Loves Opal. That limited her mobility for the rest of her life. I guess that would have prevented her from making an appearance during season six of Here's Lucy if Howard McClay had listened (which he should have!) She seems to move pretty well in 1975's Crazy Mama, though.

 

The columnists in the fall of 1965 were buzzing that Ann would be Mame. She was reported to have lost 28 pounds at the time. A bio about Ann claims she turned down the offer. If that is indeed true, perhaps she didn't want to move to New York?

[HarryCarter]

Dorothy Kilgallen, I think, was the one who reported that Sid and Ann were an item. I've since found a subsequent retraction where Dorothy says that Sid is indeed already married (to Vanda).

 

The 1983 Mame revival was a strange situation. It was originally a regional production in Philadeliphia that the producer transferred to Broadway on a whim with no advance publicity. It played the Gershwin, Broadway's largest theater to almost empty audiences. There's a legend that the production was taped for a Showtime presentation and never aired. That has never been confirmed. I'm surprised people haven't blamed that on Lucy.

 

To my knowledge, I don't think "special guest star" billing is a union thing. I think it's a contractural thing and is probably for the prestige.

[Lucyilove]

I have both books written about Ann Sothern and Sid Gould is not mentioned in them (well he gets a mention in the cast of a LS episode in one in the credits section); I doubt it was anything resembling a romance, probably just an escort a time or two at functions which means nothing. After all if it did, Cesar Romero would have scored more action than anyone in town and we know that is not the case, not with the ladies anyway .... I was always a little surprised how close Lucy was to Ann considering Ms. Sothern did have a rep as being a little aloof to other women and a touch self-important, not the type Lucy normally palled around with. Several actresses found her kind of frosty, don't know the Barbara Eden story though. I think it's kind of amazing Ann got as much work as she did in the 60s/70s given her weight, no she may not be Orson Welles at his chunkiest but there's no denying she was quite huge for a period particularly the 70s, indeed I can't think of another white actress in her weight range who worked as much in that period in leading or featured roles (it was just the opposite for black actresses, seemed ones with extra pounds worked more than ones who were slim and glamorous in that period.) I haven't read anything on Ann in the running to get MAME on Broadway however according to one book she was asked to replace Ethel Merman at the end of the latter's GYPSY run on Broadway, maybe this is where the story comes from. She declined but did later play Mama Rose on the road in 1967.

[Lucyilove]

Seems almost cruel to have a thread on Ann Sothern in the section titled "There Just Wasn't Enough ROOM For All of you!!"

[C L A U D E]

I have both books written about Ann Sothern and Sid Gould is not mentioned in them (well he gets a mention in the cast of a LS episode in one in the credits section); I doubt it was anything resembling a romance, probably just an escort a time or two at functions which means nothing. After all if it did, Cesar Romero would have scored more action than anyone in town and we know that is not the case, not with the ladies anyway .... I was always a little surprised how close Lucy was to Ann considering Ms. Sothern did have a rep as being a little aloof to other women and a touch self-important, not the type Lucy normally palled around with. Several actresses found her kind of frosty, don't know the Barbara Eden story though. I think it's kind of amazing Ann got as much work as she did in the 60s/70s given her weight, no she may not be Orson Welles at his chunkiest but there's no denying she was quite huge for a period particularly the 70s, indeed I can't think of another white actress in her weight range who worked as much in that period in leading or featured roles (it was just the opposite for black actresses, seemed ones with extra pounds worked more than ones who were slim and glamorous in that period.) I haven't read anything on Ann in the running to get MAME on Broadway however according to one book she was asked to replace Ethel Merman at the end of the latter's GYPSY run on Broadway, maybe this is where the story comes from. She declined but did later play Mama Rose on the road in 1967.

Don't remember reading that Ann was cool to other women, but I did read that she used Cesar as an escort as most ladies passed a certain age did. Loved the story about her asking for something sweet on a break while doing The Lucy show, all those scoops of ice cream with crushed oreos on top, or as she referred to it, A LITTLE SUGAR! LOL! Loved everything she ever did. As for Lucy staying friends with her, Lucy never abandoned anyone who was her friend in the beginning as they met at Columbia I think and Ann helped Lucy decorate her first house. If I had anything at all starring Ann, I would put it on right now, just loved her in anything.

[Lucyilove]

Don't remember reading that Ann was cool to other women, but I did read that she used Cesar as an escort as most ladies passed a certain age did. Loved the story about her asking for something sweet on a break while doing The Lucy show, all those scoops of ice cream with crushed oreos on top, or as she referred to it, A LITTLE SUGAR! LOL! Loved everything she ever did. As for Lucy staying friends with her, Lucy never abandoned anyone who was her friend in the beginning as they met at Columbia I think and Ann helped Lucy decorate her first house. If I had anything at all starring Ann, I would put it on right now, just loved her in anything.

You haven't recorded the Maisie movies off TCM? They play on there fairly often as do a number of Ann's starring films since she like Lucy became an MGM star after her starlet period elsewhere. A couple of the actresses in the book CORDIALLY YOURS ANN SOTHERN kind of mention she was not that friendly it's not like she was a bitch. You should get that book as I think you'd really like it, lots of fun stories and it has a great running story of how the author was a devoted fan of Ann's all his life who became a good friend of hers in the 1970's. The guy was also a film historian so it's very well done. I'm not that big a fan of hers but I found it great.

[C L A U D E]

You haven't recorded the Maisie movies off TCM? They play on there fairly often as do a number of Ann's starring films since she like Lucy became an MGM star after her starlet period elsewhere. A couple of the actresses in the book CORDIALLY YOURS ANN SOTHERN kind of mention she was not that friendly it's not like she was a bitch. You should get that book as I think you'd really like it, lots of fun stories and it has a great running story of how the author was a devoted fan of Ann's all his life who became a good friend of hers in the 1970's. The guy was also a film historian so it's very well done. I'm not that big a fan of hers but I found it great.

Those Maisie movies never did anything for me, I meant seeing her in her TV shows or most of her films. I love the way she stayed friends with Lucy decade after decade, through the divorce from Desi all the way to that fiasco Life with Lucy. They telephoned each other all the time and stayed friendly, love that. You know a genuine friend. Yeah, I will look for those books to add them to my collection.

[Neil]

. I've never seen The Killing Kind. I'll have to track it down.

 

It's a stellar star performance, really the best thing she did in movies after her heyday in the 40s. It's a bit on the grizzly side in a couple of scenes, though these scenes are not with Ann. I'd liken it on the grizzly/seamy scale to "Lady in a Cage", another great Ann movie performance.

Ann runs an LA boarding house. Her adult son returns from a jail stint for rape and continues to have "problems". Cindy Williams applies to be a boarder and mentions to Ann that she's going to get into the movies. "They say I have an interesting face". "Hummph", snorts Ann, then adds in a cherry voice: "that's what they say when they don't say pretty."

Some producer/money problem got in the way of its distribution, but the production values aren't quite "A" enough for it to have gotten a wide release anyway.

[HarryCarter]

Since that post was written a year and a half ago, I have seen The Killing Kind and I agree with your assessment. I find it much more grizzly than Lady in a Cage. Ann is great in the film.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

So when Eden does the.voice over on the season6 ILL dvd is she comparing how.she was treated on Anns show and Lucy's show? Because she doean't mention Ann's name....just says another actress on a different show.wasn't as.nice to her as.Lucy was. But I want details!

[Brock]

So when Eden does the.voice over on the season6 ILL dvd is she comparing how.she was treated on Anns show and Lucy's show? Because she doean't mention Ann's name....just says another actress on a different show.wasn't as.nice to her as.Lucy was. But I want details!

 

Barbara Eden compared her treatment on ILL to her treatment on Private Secretary in Jamestown without naming names. She saved that for her autobiography.

[C L A U D E]

So when Eden does the.voice over on the season6 ILL dvd is she comparing how.she was treated on Anns show and Lucy's show? Because she doean't mention Ann's name....just says another actress on a different show.wasn't as.nice to her as.Lucy was. But I want details!

Probably all about Craft Services. Lucy never ate sweets that much but there was never anything left on Ann's set.

[HarryCarter]

Ann Sothern will be TCM's Star of the Month in March!

[JoeySanJoaquin]

So there's some Maisie on its way???

[HarryCarter]

So there's some Maisie on its way???

There's a Maisie marathon March 11.

[Neil]

https://www.amazon.com/Lady-Dark-1954-TV-Production/dp/B01G719XAS/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1470105789&sr=1-1&keywords=lady+in+the+dark+ann+sothern

 

A new DVD release.  The cover art would suggest the program is in color, but it is not.  "Lady in the Dark", originally done in the mid-40s starring Gertrude Larence,  is supposed to be a great musical, but it's not one that I "get".  It's OK as in the score.  Psychology was all the rage when it was first produced so maybe that was the appeal.  I didn't realize until very late that Ann was such a great singer.   

"Lady in the Dark" was a LIVE show.  The skill it took to produce live TV  cannot be fully understood today, especially considering TV was so new and there was NOTHING portable (or wireless) about the equipment.  There was an excitement about live tv that we can't appreciate now.   

"Lady" was originally broadcast in color, but the kinescope was done in black-and-white.  I never understood why color kinescopes were never made (or if they were, it was very rare).   But it was explained to me recently.   

Live shows were done on the east coast.  There was a transcontinental cable but the 3 hour time difference** made it problematic for the west coast to view it live too.  A kinescope* was shot during the live broadcast and within three hours the film was developed and transmitted via the cable so the show could play in the same time slot on the west coast. .  The problem was that color film could not be developed in 3 hours. 

 

Maybe someone who works at, say the Paley Center, can tell us whether some color kinescopes exist.   Also he (or she) can tell us whether network kinescopes were originally shot on 35mm.   The kinescopes we see generally are 16mm. 

 

*Just in case someone doesn't know what a kinescope is.   During a live broadcast, a film camera is aimed at a high quality TV monitor.  Kinescopes were still being made with the advent of videotape (in the latter 50s), mainly for archival purposes.  Videotape was 2" wide and the reels were HUGE so storage was an issue.   When the Game Show Network ran the entire run of "What's My Line?" (god-bless-'em), it was all kinescopes, even the episodes that were produced in 1967, the last year of the show.   Since WML ran Sundays at 10:30,  some west coast stations ran it live at 7:30.  WML was live until the end.   

 

**for further details abut this, see Kathryn Card's explanation in "Hedda Hopper Story".  And by the way Ricky, she IS right about the time difference.