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Her Voice


Irene Kampen Tripp

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Joey I haven't heard of her abusing booze before. Desi most certainly but never Lucy. Other than the 'slushies' that Lee mentioned, what else did she drink? The voice was broke the Lucy character illusion for me. I think it really added to Lucy Ricardo that she sounded quite childish and the deeper voice didn't work so well for me in the later characters. 

Jeez I can never convey a thought clearly!! I did NOT mean to imply she was a drunk or a boozer, rather she "abused" her voice -- primarily by heavy cigarette smoking (especially since she smoked UNFILTERED cigs!) and any liquor she consumed only added to that.... I do think however that she may have drank more then (after all, it was a different time) than what we now consider "socially acceptable" (i.e., one, maybe two cocktails or a glass of wine with dinner, etc.).... but that's just my two centavos! 

 

Apologies for any confusion. :lucyhmm:

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  • 7 months later...

But .. didn't the Wildcat experience put a lot of strain on her voice? Rehearsal and performance as Mrs Ricardo.and then Wildcat Jackson along with 3 packs a day of Chesterfield cigarettes and scotch liquid refreshments took their toll.

 

And then magnify that by her loud voice projection.  So not only is she rehearsing all week in this unnaturally high-pitched voice, but she's also projecting (i.e., screaming) while using that unnaturally high-pitched voice.  Doing that week after week, year after year.  And she's also never giving her voice a rest because, when she's not reading her lines, she's giving direction.  Then after rehearsals, she's doing her Desilu executive work, which means more and more talking.  Add to that the cigarettes and the morning scotch (vocal chords have a natural lubricant that alcohol dries out).  Then throw in the Wildcat vocal abuse (I remember Keith Andes speaking at a Lucy convention and saying that Lucy didn't use proper singing technique when she performed in Wildcat, and nobody instructed her).  Go listen to tapes of her from TV shows she did during Wildcat.  Her voice is worn out, hoarse.

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  • 6 months later...

Lucy talked her about her voice during a 1980s interview on The John Davidson Show. She was asked what physical thing about herself she would change and she said her voice.

 

And did Mr. Davidson pursue the matter any further?  I doubt it.  Her voice is one of those things people are so curious about.  It got deep really, really fast when you think about it.  In those last Lucy-Desi Hours, she didn't sound a whole lot different than she did at the beginning of I Love Lucy, or even back into the late '40s.  But going the other direction in time, 14 years later at the end of Here's Lucy, it's barely recognizable as the same person.  Her voice got deeper than Gale Gordon's. It's 2017 now.  Imagine someone's voice changing that much since 2003.

 

I'm sure millions of people were curious about what happened to Lucille Ball's voice, but I never, ever heard anyone ask her about it in an interview -- not even Dick Cavett or Phil Donahue or Barbara Walters, who didn't usually shy away from asking tough questions.  Were all those interviewers scared of her, scared to ask her this very obvious question?

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And did Mr. Davidson pursue the matter any further?  I doubt it.  Her voice is one of those things people are so curious about.  It got deep really, really fast when you think about it.  In those last Lucy-Desi Hours, she didn't sound a whole lot different than she did at the beginning of I Love Lucy, or even back into the late '40s.  But going the other direction in time, 14 years later at the end of Here's Lucy, it's barely recognizable as the same person.  Her voice got deeper than Gale Gordon's. It's 2017 now.  Imagine someone's voice changing that much since 2003.

 

I'm sure millions of people were curious about what happened to Lucille Ball's voice, but I never, ever heard anyone ask her about it in an interview -- not even Dick Cavett or Phil Donahue or Barbara Walters, who didn't usually shy away from asking tough questions.  Were all those interviewers scared of her, scared to ask her this very obvious question?

 

Let's get SERIOUS and think about this:  RIGHT NOW; and it would be a good time to ask Tom Watson; because, it is my belief, he would be one of only a handful who could talk about this; of course, there IS  WANDA & FRANK; I suppose the children; but, I believe Tom is best;  when you don't see someone everyday or so, like family and secretary and driver, et al, TOM IS THE BEST to answer this for us.  WHADDYA think????  JK :fabrary: 

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Let's get SERIOUS and think about this:  RIGHT NOW; and it would be a good time to ask Tom Watson; because, it is my belief, he would be one of only a handful who could talk about this; of course, there IS  WANDA & FRANK; I suppose the children; but, I believe Tom is best;  when you don't see someone everyday or so, like family and secretary and driver, et al, TOM IS THE BEST to answer this for us.  WHADDYA think????  JK :fabrary:

 

It's worth asking them, but I have a feeling the subject never came up even with them, unless Lucy brought it up.  I just get the feeling everyone was afraid to talk to her about it.

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Didn't mean to suggest Tom Watson should have asked Lucille about her lower voice; but, he certainly could comment on how her voice changed from the time he met her; then, worked with her; and could comment on the change for us. 

 

By the time he met her, her voice was already deep.  But I'd be curious if she ever brought up the subject.

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Exactly, same here.  But I don't think there's a reason I could think of where he would think it "appropriate". :blink:

 

No, there's no way Tom would have ever broached the subject.  I just wonder if she ever brought it up.

 

Often when someone raises the topic of why someone's voice gets deep and gravely, they use Lucille Ball as an example.  http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=555434 

 

 

Here's some information on voice change prevention and causes.  Look how many applied (or may have applied) to Lucille Ball.  The "bingo" comments were added by me reflecting my own guesses at the contributing factors that applied:

 

Tips for maintaining a healthy voice:

* Drink water to keep your body well hydrated, and avoid alcohol (BINGO) and caffeine. Your vocal cords vibrate very fast, and having a proper water balance helps keep them lubricated.

* Don't smoke (BINGO), or if you already do, quit. Smoking raises the risk of throat cancer tremendously, and inhaling smoke (even secondhand smoke!) can irritate the vocal cords.

* Don't abuse or misuse your voice (BINGO). Avoid yelling(BINGO; Desi wrote in his autobiography that on long trips with Lucy early on she would scream at the top of her lungs trying to deepen her voice) or screaming habitually(BINGO; thinking of a typical Here's Lucy episode), and try not to talk loudly in noisy areas. If your throat feels dry or tired, or your voice is getting hoarse, stop talking(BINGO; during the Lucy Show and HL years, Lucy likely never stopped talking; during rehearsals she was acting as well as directing the director and everyone else). And don't alter your voice to speak in a higher (BINGO!!! Lucy Ricardo voice) or lower pitch than normal.

* Don't clear your throat too often. When you clear your throat, it's like slamming your vocal cords together. Doing it too much can injure them and make you hoarse. Try a sip of water or swallow. If you feel like you have to clear your throat a lot, get checked by a doctor for reflux disease, or allergy and sinus conditions. * When you're sick, spare your voice. Don't talk when you're hoarse due to a cold or infection. Listen to what your voice is telling you!

 

Common causes of voice changes:

* Common cold or upper respiratory infection, laryngitis

* Voice overuse (BINGO)

* Vocal cord lesions such as nodules or polyps (BINGO)

* Gastroesophageal and laryngopharyngeal reflux disease (caused by acid from the stomach)

* Poor speaking technique (BINGO; I'm thinking poor singing technique relates here, with Wildcat in mind)

* Vocal cord paralysis

* Throat cancer

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/04/030414084332.htm

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I know it's supposed to be non smoking related but would assume with all the heavy smoking in the past this was nothing new so not something people really bothered with?

 

But it was more than just smoking (see my post above).  Bette Davis was a heavy smoker, but her voice didn't change very much.  Few people had voice changes as drastic as Lucille Ball's.

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I think improper singing during Wildcat helped to kill it too.

 

Definitely.  Keith Andes was at one of the Lucy conventions and I remember him saying that she damaged her voice singing in Wildcat.  She wasn't using proper singing techniques, and nobody was teaching her how.  (Or maybe she was ignoring advice).

 

Going back a bit, my guess is the damage began in the 1940s, and she covered it up for as long as she could.  Referencing the medical information I posted in above in #63 of causes of vocal chord damage, here are my theories:

 

Screaming:  Desi wrote in his autobiography how, early in their marriage, they would go on road trips and Lucy would scream at the top of her lungs.  She was hoping her voice would deepen as a result because Katharine Hepburn had made a comment that it was too high.  In her early movies she did have a very high pitch, which is not unusual for someone her age at the time.

 

Speaking in a Higher Pitch than Normal:    So we all know she did this on I Love Lucy, trying to sound girlish (again), and probably wishing she had ignored Katharine Hepburn's advice years earlier.  There are a few times on the show, particularly in S1, when her voice cracks.  I think that was an indication she was already doing some damage by speaking in this pitch. 

 

Awhile back, I was watching some clips on Youtube of Facts of Life.  I was struck by how deep her voice sounded in that movie compared to "Lucy Meets the Mustache," which was filmed just months earlier.  It's a notable difference. So I'm thinking that right up until the last Lucy-Desi Hour, she was still trying to hit that higher vocal register, meaning nine years of abuse by speaking in an unnaturally high pitch.  But on Facts of Life, she was making an effort not to act and sound like Lucy Ricardo, so she allowed herself to fall into her much lower natural speaking voice at that time (1960), which it seems was much lower than her 1951 natural speaking voice before she began the Lucy Ricardo high-pitch damage.

 

Improper Singing Technique AND Screaming:  I'm agreeing here, and concurring also with Keith Andes' opinion, that Wildcat did the most damage to her voice.  I'm sure you all have seen that Ed Sullivan clip where she and Paula Stewart perform a scene from Wildcat.  She starts out screaming out her dialogue -- really screaming! -- and that screaming transitions into the song.  To think she was doing that for a couple hours a night, every night, for months -- yikes!

 

Early during  the run of Wildcat, she made a guest appearance on What's My Line.  This episode is on Youtube.  Her voice is SOOO hoarse.  The damage that show was doing to her voice is obvious.

 

Speaking Constantly; Improper Speaking Technique/Screaming; Smoking; Drinking:  By the time 1962 rolled around and she started doing The Lucy Show, the combination of the screaming-in-the-car road trips with Desi, the years of high-pitched Lucy Ricardo, and (especially) the screaming and improper singing in Wildcat had left her voice irreparably damaged.  But during the years on The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy she did things that further irritated her vocal chords and made her voice not just deep, but gravelly.

 

First, she was acting and directing, then probably on the phone constantly doing Desilu business, through most of the Lucy Show years.  During the months the show was being filmed, she never gave her voice a rest.

 

Second, we all know how she was always playing to the back rows in her audience, which meant keeping her vocal volume high.  She would have been doing that all week during rehearsals, in addition to during filming. On these two points, go check out her 1967 Emmy speech.  I believe this aired in March or April 1967, but The Lucy Show had ended production for the season around December or January.  So by the time of the Emmy show, her voice had been rested for several months.  The quality of her voice is so superior in that speech compared to on The Lucy Show a few months earlier. 

 

Third, smoking, which irritates the vocal chords.  She had vocal chords that were already damaged due to all of the above; the smoking only aggravated the damage. 

 

Fourth, she was known to enjoy drinking scotch on a regular basis.  Alcohol dries up the natural lubricant in the vocal chords.  So more abuse on top of abuse.

 

Doing all these things week after week, year after year, takes a toll.  Then along came Mame and I wonder if she was back to singing improperly and not ever resting her voice because when S6 of Here's Lucy started, there is a noticeable further deepening and gravelly sound to her voice versus S5. My own vocal chords are hurting just thinking of all the stuff she was doing to hers on a regular basis.

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This was fascinating to read and I think spot on. On one of those Goodtimes public domain tapes Lucy does a pitch for The Life of a Model Show. She starts off talking like Lucy Ricardo, but when she becomes Lucille Ball the voice drop is very noticeable.

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I thought I "knew" most everything about my beloved Miss Ball and her storied career and particularly my first foray and exposure to her massive contribution to the television zeitgeist and until this Board, if not this thread, I was never aware nor noticed that she was intentionally speaking in an altered (if you will), higher-pitched voice all the while portraying Lucy Ricardo!!

 

It's a fascinating topic as are the multiple theories as to why her "natural" voice (whichever one it was!) deepened/lowered over time and ...just to throw my two centavos into the mix, I just thought of another possibility, however thin a possibility it may be, and that is while we may think of Lucy Ricardo as in her early 30s at the beginning, she was actually [already] a 40 year-old woman portraying the part (don't get me started on another theory that that essentially came to bite her in the butt years later!) and perhaps, would it be ever so even slightly possible that the lady was in some stage of going through menopause? Far-fetched perhaps but given it's a natural "malady" that only females endure (and granted I know very little about), is it at all remotely possible that one of the results of that "'sperience" could be a deepening of the speaking voice?? Just wondering ....

 

:lucyeww:

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Good reading all 'round; and I HAD forgotten, Tom W. didn't meet her until the 80's; so, probably we'd have to ask two of the last to comment (as in still alive; other than children):  Frank and Wanda.  Thanks for all the interesting comment; perhaps, we will never know; and Desi's comment about her screaming in order to lower her voice, was the best comment made to explain it.  The 'other comments' are EACH just as legitimate, as well.  Loved the comparison(s), too.  Thanks, again.  :fabrary: 

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Yes...but being a lifelong advocate for non-smoking, a "habit" that to this day I do not understand as there is absolutely NOTHING glamorous, "cute" or appealing about it (not to mention it's foul odor and ridiculous expense!) how heavy, unfiltered cigarette smoking for over 50 years could NOT have had an adverse affect on her health and speaking/singing voice. 

 

I mean...YUCK!!! :blink:

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I thought I "knew" most everything about my beloved Miss Ball and her storied career and particularly my first foray and exposure to her massive contribution to the television zeitgeist and until this Board, if not this thread, I was never aware nor noticed that she was intentionally speaking in an altered (if you will), higher-pitched voice all the while portraying Lucy Ricardo!!

 

Well I submit to you this piece of evidence.  Here is a clip of Lucille Ball in The Magic Carpet in 1951.  In dramatic films like this, where she wasn't trying to play naive and girlish funny characters like Lucy Ricardo, she could resort to her natural speaking voice.  Keep in mind, this was before the launch of I Love Lucy.  You know the sound of her voice on I Love Lucy and it's not like this!  As this proves, her natural voice, even as early as 1951, was already developing a rather low pitch.  It must have been from those screaming exercises Desi talked about! :)

 

 

Here she is five years earlier in Two Smart People (1946).  Her voice seems a little higher to me in this one, but still lower than the Lucy Ricardo voice.

 

 

And then stepping back in further, to 1937's Stage Door.  This was before Katharine Hepburn made her insecure about her voice, before she starting taking those wild screaming freeway rides.

 

 

(As more evidence of the impact on the voice from excessive use of the vocal chords, go watch an old Youtube clip of Hillary Clinton from 20 years ago, before her years of constant campaigning.  She sounded much different back then.) 

 

Going forward in time, this is Lucille Ball in 1960 in Facts of Life.  Compare that to the 1951 Magic Carpet clip above.  While her voice in Magic Carpet was a bit deep, it's really deep here in 1960.  And this was before Wildcat.

 

 

Now check this out.  This is Lucille Ball on What's My Line?  in 1961 during the run of Wildcat.  Lucy's segment begins at 15:25.  Do you notice how hoarse she sounds?

 

 

And this is the Ed Sullivan clip of her doing a bit from Wildcat in 1961.  Notice the yelling and screaming, as well as the loudly projected singing.  Notice also that she's back to performing in a high Lucy Ricardo-like pitch.  In that earlier Facts of Life video in 1960, you hear the deep-voice Lucille Ball.  But now she's back to the high pitch AND loudly projecting (screaming) that high pitch to the back rows AND singing with improper technique.  It's a tripple whammy!  Poor vocal chords!

 

 

Jumping forward several years to 1967, you know how rough her voice often sounded at that time on The Lucy Show.  But as I mentioned in an earlier post, The Lucy Show had been on hiatus for several months when she won her Emmy Award that year.  So her voice had several months to rest.  This is a clip of her Emmy acceptance and her voice sounds clearer and less gravelly than it did on The Lucy Show a few months earlier.

 

 

 

It's a fascinating topic as are the multiple theories as to why her "natural" voice (whichever one it was!) deepened/lowered over time and ...just to throw my two centavos into the mix, I just thought of another possibility, however thin a possibility it may be, and that is while we may think of Lucy Ricardo as in her early 30s at the beginning, she was actually [already] a 40 year-old woman portraying the part (don't get me started on another theory that that essentially came to bite her in the butt years later!)

 

Okay, I have no idea what theory you're referring to, but I'm intrigued.  Please do get started 'splainin' that theory!  :)

 

 

would it be ever so even slightly possible that the lady was in some stage of going through menopause? Far-fetched perhaps but given it's a natural "malady" that only females endure (and granted I know very little about), is it at all remotely possible that one of the results of that "'sperience" could be a deepening of the speaking voice?? Just wondering ....

 

:lucyeww:

 

Well, that could certainly be ONE of the contributors.  Most women's voices do get a little lower over time and after menopause, which is not preventable.  The information I provided in post #63 are actual medical explanations of causes of vocal chord damage that are preventable: screaming; voice overuse/constant talking; speaking in an unnatural pitch; improper speaking/singing technique; smoking; drinking alcohol -- Lucy did ALL of that, and did those things for years.

 

Yes...but being a lifelong advocate for non-smoking, a "habit" that to this day I do not understand as there is absolutely NOTHING glamorous, "cute" or appealing about it (not to mention it's foul odor and ridiculous expense!) how heavy, unfiltered cigarette smoking for over 50 years could NOT have had an adverse affect on her health and speaking/singing voice. 

 

I mean...YUCK!!! :blink:

 

I agree with all you're saying about smoking.  Plus there's the stench that smokers carry around with them, that they may not be aware of.  Have you ever kissed a smoker?  Talk about yuck!

 

I do agree that smoking can have a negative effect on the vocal chords, and that medical info I posted says as much.  I'm just saying that Lucy's voice got SO deep and SO gravelly, it has to be more than just smoking.  I noted that Bette Davis was a lifelong smoker, but her voice didn't change that much.  And here's one that really surprised me (below)!  Maybe she is no longer a smoker, but it appears she did smoke for years, and had been a heavy smoker.  Yet if you hear Ms. Day now (on Youtube there are recent recordings of her calling into radio shows), her voice is not a whole lot different than 40 or 50 years ago.  But DD spent most of her career in movies, not performing to the back rows of a theater audience.  Or speaking in a high pitch to sound girlish.  And I presume she knew/knows about proper vocal technique when singing.  She probably drinks a lot of water, which I think singers typically do.  And nobody ever told DD she needed to ride down the highway screaming at the top of her lungs!

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/04/e8/6f04e8661298ed58eebfaf5fdf694b84.jpg

http://cdn1.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de/media.media.a9631d26-6fba-42f3-a436-f2ff359c00a4.normalized.jpeg

http://dorisday.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/day-sinatra-bacall.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/aa/1d/78/aa1d78fad6e2b0c01a8d2ec494c89958.jpg

 

Good reading all 'round; and I HAD forgotten, Tom W. didn't meet her until the 80's; so, probably we'd have to ask two of the last to comment (as in still alive; other than children):  Frank and Wanda.  Thanks for all the interesting comment; perhaps, we will never know; and Desi's comment about her screaming in order to lower her voice, was the best comment made to explain it.  The 'other comments' are EACH just as legitimate, as well.  Loved the comparison(s), too.  Thanks, again.  :fabrary:

 

Well, like I said, my theories are based on what medical folks warn can damage the voice.  All those things the doctors warn not to do, Lucy pretty much did them all, and did them a lot!

 

As for Frank and Wanda, like Tom, I don't think they would have asked her, "Hey Ms. Ball, what they hell happened to your voice?"  But perhaps LB at some point brought up the subject herself, so possibly they have some insight.  That said, I have to give some credence to Keith Andes, who was with her the whole time on Wildcat and saw the things she was doing on stage that he believed destroyed her voice.

 

 

This was fascinating to read and I think spot on. On one of those Goodtimes public domain tapes Lucy does a pitch for The Life of a Model Show. She starts off talking like Lucy Ricardo, but when she becomes Lucille Ball the voice drop is very noticeable.

 

I don't believe I've ever seen that.  Is that during the I Love Lucy years?

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