The ending pool video in Home Movies

[Luvsbway]

Stu's shows are at stusshow.com. look in the archives. They are 99 cents, buy 3 get 1 free. Some of the best 99 cents you'll spend in a long time.

[Annaleigh]

 

 

When they were in bed together....

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Perfection

[C L A U D E]

Perfection

Pillow talk as Danny Thomas once referred to it when talking to Lucie Arnaz.

[vivfantoo*]

The footage of Lucy & Desi in the pool with their grandson is one of my favorite clips of them.

 

Random thoughts about what has already been posted ... Lucy was controlling & demanding on set, & Lucie once commented that when she went to work with her mom on TLS she realized that Lucy was exactly the same at home as she was at work. It's very possible that Lucie heard much more criticism from Lucy (in the form of how to improve herself) than she did praise, which may explain Lucie's long held belief of not being praised by her mom. Whether we like or believe her comments, it is her reality & her memories that form her opinions. I personally think she has been very restrained in speaking negatively about Lucy; she surely could not have been easy to live with & Lucie probably has lots of unflattering stories that she will never tell.

 

About Gary possibly wanting to leave Lucy near the end -- I think they were both unhappy & felt trapped. I think Gary had no idea that Desi would always be such a big part of their marriage. That has to be hard on anyone's ego, to know that your spouse still loves her ex & asks his advice on career decisions. How many times did they have a conversation that included the words "Desi says" or "Desi thinks"? There was also a big age difference between the two, if I recall correctly, with Gary being much younger. Gary in his 50s may have wanted different things than Lucy who was in her 70s at the same time. Maybe she was really into her backgammon obsession by this point.

 

And although the money he could spend was a huge perk for Gary, the saying "Money can't buy happiness" probably fits in here big time. While Lucy didn't want to be alone at the end of her life, she had to have figured out (if she didn't know from the beginning) that her money probably played a big role in Gary's decision to marry her. Especially since he was often spending it on activities without her, when she would have preferred for him to be at home more spending time with her. I also think both of them feared negative press if they divorced; Gary for leaving the Lucy everyone loved, & Lucy for the public humiliation. I'm sure she didn't want to be alone & that she wanted to save this long term marriage, but she might also have been afraid of being perceived to have failed at being enough in the wife department to hold onto her husband. Maybe they were both fighting & miserable behind closed doors -- who really knows?

 

As much as Lucy loved Desi & sought him out until he died, I doubt that she was happy that Desi was cut out of the home movies.

My belief is that this was what Gary wanted, so it would be easier on him when the family would sit & watch home movies together, to have some without the memory of her first husband, especially when watching clips of the kids he loved. I think Lucy found out afterward, & wasn't happy about it. I would guess there was an argument over it when Lucy found out, but she allowed the concession because she could understand why he did it. Maybe it was even Lucy who told Desi about it.

 

Gary hiding things from Lucy, like job offers, that seems very plausible to me since offers probably went through him. If anyone spoke to Lucy directly, she surely discussed it with Gary & they came to a decision together. She always let Desi make her career decisions & seems to have given this power to Gary, too. While she might have had her doubts, I agree with what someone else posted about also wanted to appease his ego by letting him have his say in business decisions. I wonder if Gary knew about the lack of respect he had from others in the industry? As to hiding personal things from her, sure, that's possible -- haven't so many failed marriages ended because one spouse was hiding something from the other?

 

The archives at stu's site are a treasure trove! There are dozens of Lucy related interviews, each two hours or more. He has a terrific, fast interview style & his shows are full of interesting info that I often haven't read before in Lucy books. Some of the guests, like Doris Singleton & Shirley Mitchell, I listened to because of their Lucy connection, but ended up really enjoying learning about all the things these talented ladies did before & after Lucy's shows.

 

It has been interesting to read everyone's thoughts in this topic . Bottom line, though, is that only Lucy & Gary know the real truth, & we can only guess at what that was.

[Luvsbway]

I think I figured out more of the story of the video and the pool. I listened to the second Wanda and Frank interview from Stu’s show. Katie was right, this is a great interview. Lots of stuff not touched on in the first one, or in the one from earlier this year.

Wanda shared this story. Lucie was going to do a movie in NM and had just had Simon. Well Lucy calls her up and says can I take the kid while you are away. First this goes against the notion presented in Lee’s book that she did not like to be around her grandkids. Well it ended up Lucy came down with the flu at some point in this visit and Lucie misses her kid anyways, so Wanda takes Simon on the plane and flys down to NM to reunite the family.

 

So this makes sense to me. Lucy is taking care of the kid for a few days (before she gets the flu), probably calls up Desi and says I have the grandkid why don’t you come and visit. Stu gets wind of this and comes over with the video camera, teaches Frank how to use it and that’s how we end up with this wonderful footage. Now this still does not answer the question who’s pool it was. I am very inclined to think it’s Lucy’s. You would have to compare the step area to photos to really come up with a conclusion.

 

[C L A U D E]

I think I figured out more of the story of the video and the pool. I listened to the second Wanda and Frank interview from Stu’s show. Katie was right, this is a great interview. Lots of stuff not touched on in the first one, or in the one from earlier this year.

Wanda shared this story. Lucie was going to do a movie in NM and had just had Simon. Well Lucy calls her up and says can I take the kid while you are away. First this goes against the notion presented in Lee’s book that she did not like to be around her grandkids. Well it ended up Lucy came down with the flu at some point in this visit and Lucie misses her kid anyways, so Wanda takes Simon on the plane and flys down to NM to reunite the family.

 

So this makes sense to me. Lucy is taking care of the kid for a few days (before she gets the flu), probably calls up Desi and says I have the grandkid why don’t you come and visit. Stu gets wind of this and comes over with the video camera, teaches Frank how to use it and that’s how we end up with this wonderful footage. Now this still does not answer the question who’s pool it was. I am very inclined to think it’s Lucy’s. You would have to compare the step area to photos to really come up with a conclusion.

I always thought it WAS Lucy's pool, it had that real swimming hole feel to it, surrounded by rocks and flowers and all. Remember the time Lucy told Merv that Lucie was going to be away and she intended to take care of Simon if asked. Yes, Lee's book was so glaring in those types of things, just because she didn't want the little brats breaking things doesn't mean she didn't enjoy them being around.

[Taylor]

I always thought it WAS Lucy's pool, it had that real swimming hole feel to it, surrounded by rocks and flowers and all. Remember the time Lucy told Merv that Lucie was going to be away and she intended to take care of Simon if asked. Yes, Lee's book was so glaring in those types of things, just because she didn't want the little brats breaking things doesn't mean she didn't enjoy them being around.

 

Exactly. That's one thing I didn't care for in Lee's book was the way he interpreted Lucy's feelings for her grandkids. I think he was way off in his assessment.

[C L A U D E]

Exactly. That's one thing I didn't care for in Lee's book was the way he interpreted Lucy's feelings for her grandkids. I think he was way off in his assessment.

Another one who THOUGHT he was there with her all the time, but HE WASN'T.

[Luvsbway]

On Stu's show he mentions how Lee paints this picture she was this depressed woman in her later years and he said this was not the woman how knew.

[desilufan2]

On Stu's show he mentions how Lee paints this picture she was this depressed woman in her later years and he said this was not the woman how knew.

That comment really caught my attention as well. For many reasons. First off, of all the "Lucy insiders" Stu is the one I really have a lot of confidence in. I think he is a good man and not out to expoit his relationship with Lucy in any way. Lee Tannen I think has offered good insight on Lucy's later years but seems to be in it for himself at times. I don't trust him the way I do Stu. But that comment almost seemed to contadict a lot of what Stu has said about Lucy's state after LIfe with Lucy flopped. I think what Stu may have been getting at is that she was not "alone" all of the time. He was there as was Tom Watson. But I do think she was pretty sad the last few years. To much as been said by her friends and family alike to convince me otherwise.

[C L A U D E]

On Stu's show he mentions how Lee paints this picture she was this depressed woman in her later years and he said this was not the woman how knew.

Maybe she was depressed when she was with HIM, after all, he IS a relative of gary's, LOL!

[Lucyilove]

The footage of Lucy & Desi in the pool with their grandson is one of my favorite clips of them.

 

Random thoughts about what has already been posted ... Lucy was controlling & demanding on set, & Lucie once commented that when she went to work with her mom on TLS she realized that Lucy was exactly the same at home as she was at work. It's very possible that Lucie heard much more criticism from Lucy (in the form of how to improve herself) than she did praise, which may explain Lucie's long held belief of not being praised by her mom. Whether we like or believe her comments, it is her reality & her memories that form her opinions. I personally think she has been very restrained in speaking negatively about Lucy; she surely could not have been easy to live with & Lucie probably has lots of unflattering stories that she will never tell.

 

I have to presume you've never seen Lucie's notorious 1989 Joan Rivers interview for you to make the last sentence. I'm sorry but Lucie's comments about her mother are almost always qualifed and often more than a little hostile while Desi gets praised to the skies. And I feel it's highly likely there are more "unflattering stories" she will tell at some point.

 

 

About Gary possibly wanting to leave Lucy near the end -- I think they were both unhappy & felt trapped. I think Gary had no idea that Desi would always be such a big part of their marriage. That has to be hard on anyone's ego, to know that your spouse still loves her ex & asks his advice on career decisions. How many times did they have a conversation that included the words "Desi says" or "Desi thinks"? There was also a big age difference between the two, if I recall correctly, with Gary being much younger. Gary in his 50s may have wanted different things than Lucy who was in her 70s at the same time. Maybe she was really into her backgammon obsession by this point.

 

And although the money he could spend was a huge perk for Gary, the saying "Money can't buy happiness" probably fits in here big time. While Lucy didn't want to be alone at the end of her life, she had to have figured out (if she didn't know from the beginning) that her money probably played a big role in Gary's decision to marry her. Especially since he was often spending it on activities without her, when she would have preferred for him to be at home more spending time with her. I also think both of them feared negative press if they divorced; Gary for leaving the Lucy everyone loved, & Lucy for the public humiliation. I'm sure she didn't want to be alone & that she wanted to save this long term marriage, but she might also have been afraid of being perceived to have failed at being enough in the wife department to hold onto her husband. Maybe they were both fighting & miserable behind closed doors -- who really knows?

 

As much as Lucy loved Desi & sought him out until he died, I doubt that she was happy that Desi was cut out of the home movies.

My belief is that this was what Gary wanted, so it would be easier on him when the family would sit & watch home movies together, to have some without the memory of her first husband, especially when watching clips of the kids he loved. I think Lucy found out afterward, & wasn't happy about it. I would guess there was an argument over it when Lucy found out, but she allowed the concession because she could understand why he did it. Maybe it was even Lucy who told Desi about it.

 

Gary hiding things from Lucy, like job offers, that seems very plausible to me since offers probably went through him. If anyone spoke to Lucy directly, she surely discussed it with Gary & they came to a decision together. She always let Desi make her career decisions & seems to have given this power to Gary, too. While she might have had her doubts, I agree with what someone else posted about also wanted to appease his ego by letting him have his say in business decisions. I wonder if Gary knew about the lack of respect he had from others in the industry? As to hiding personal things from her, sure, that's possible -- haven't so many failed marriages ended because one spouse was hiding something from the other?

 

It has been interesting to read everyone's thoughts in this topic . Bottom line, though, is that only Lucy & Gary know the real truth, & we can only guess at what that was.

 

I'm sorry but I consider this all sheer conjecture. I've "read" Lucie based on her actions but you appear to be reading Lucy and Gary's minds.

[vivfantoo*]

Hi Lucyilove -- no, I have not seen the Lucie & Joan Rivers interview. I stand by what I wrote (maybe I won't after I see that interview , but until then ...). It will be interesting to see if your prediction about unflattering stories comes true after reading the book Lucie has said she is working on. Of course the rest was just conjecture/my opinion. I'm certainly not psychic , & if you look through my response again you will see I started with "random thoughts" & used words like "I think", "maybe", "might have been", "my belief", "I would guess", "seems very plausible", "I wonder", so I'm not sure why you thought I was stating facts or mind reading, especially after reading my last sentence.

[Taylor]

I have to presume you've never seen Lucie's notorious 1989 Joan Rivers interview for you to make the last sentence. I'm sorry but Lucie's comments about her mother are almost always qualifed and often more than a little hostile while Desi gets praised to the skies. And I feel it's highly likely there are more "unflattering stories" she will tell at some point.

 

 

I'm sorry but I consider this all sheer conjecture. I've "read" Lucie based on her actions but you appear to be reading Lucy and Gary's minds.

 

I haven't seen the Lucie/Joan interview either. What exactly did Lucie bitch about?

[Luvsbway]

Was this interview from 89’? I thought it was more like 90’/91’? If we are talking about the same one, is it her and Joan with a one on one, no audience? I thought I had this on VHS somewhere but couldn’t find it when I was doing a VHS to DVD conversion recently. What I do remember is it was on the harsher side in tone, but I watched it in hindsight that Lucie learned so much out about her mother in the Home Movie creation process that I think it answered a lot of what she was talking about in this interview. I don’t remember any specifics though. Maybe the reaction being bad was because it was the first not so great things said about Lucy not long after her death and especially from a family member. The public had no buffer for hearing anything negative as the woman was not long dead and any negative while she was alive was from industry people.

[Lucyilove]

Was this interview from 89’? I thought it was more like 90’/91’? If we are talking about the same one, is it her and Joan with a one on one, no audience? I thought I had this on VHS somewhere but couldn’t find it when I was doing a VHS to DVD conversion recently. What I do remember is it was on the harsher side in tone, but I watched it in hindsight that Lucie learned so much out about her mother in the Home Movie creation process that I think it answered a lot of what she was talking about in this interview. I don’t remember any specifics though. Maybe the reaction being bad was because it was the first not so great things said about Lucy not long after her death and especially from a family member. The public had no buffer for hearing anything negative as the woman was not long dead and any negative while she was alive was from industry people.

I'm sure it's the same one, I said 1989 because I was certain it wasn't long after Lucy's death but it could have been 1990 or 1991. But I seem to recall there was an audience because it was Joan's regular talk show but yes it was a full hour of Lucie and she basically just bad mouthed Lucy for the whole program. Obviously I did not keep it if I was recording it.

 

I don't find her attitude all that changed in subsequent interviews, not even on Home Movies. Yes she says she "understands" her mother better but she's still not speaking with affection or any really loving memories. I'm sorry but there's no "I love you mother and I now understand you" or even a "I forgive you mom, I understand" vibe from her comments IMO. There's not even that much sympathy for Lucy's rough early life!! I wouldn't in the least be surprised if she eventually pens a Lucy Dearest type book.

 

There was a very interesting interview with film historian Eve Golden on the internet recently. She was discussing Mommie Dearest books written by star daughters and Ms. Golden commented in virtually every case the daughter clearly wanted to be her mom and had attempted a failed or underwhelming show business career. Hmmmmm.....

[Lucyilove]

Hi Lucyilove -- no, I have not seen the Lucie & Joan Rivers interview. I stand by what I wrote (maybe I won't after I see that interview , but until then ...). It will be interesting to see if your prediction about unflattering stories comes true after reading the book Lucie has said she is working on. Of course the rest was just conjecture/my opinion. I'm certainly not psychic , & if you look through my response again you will see I started with "random thoughts" & used words like "I think", "maybe", "might have been", "my belief", "I would guess", "seems very plausible", "I wonder", so I'm not sure why you thought I was stating facts or mind reading, especially after reading my last sentence.

I didn't mean to sound harsh but it's just that while I can get the less than love for Gary on TLL I don't see why so many want to paint it as a bad or doomed marriage. We all know the Arnaz union was just devastating to Lucy, the stress and misery he caused her can't be denied to anyone clear-eyed and I would hate to think that both of Lucy's marriages were lousy.

 

Yep, Desi was far sexier than Gary. Yep, he had more talented than Gary could have dreamed of being. But he was a lousy husband and he made Lucy's life hell for years. Gary was probably boring but he was calm, tranquil, safe, just what Lucy needed. And wanted. He may have loved being Mr. Lucille Ball a bit too much, I don't care, as long as he made her happy. There are tons of stories of Desi and Lucy fighting like WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF, none that I know of Lucy and Gary doing the same. We may love Lucy and Desi (or more accurately Lucy and Ricky) but I love Lucy enough to not want her to live with that just to please the fans. So in the Best husband sweepstakes it's Mr. Morton by a landslide

[desilufan2]

Lucie is not a "mommie dearest" daughter. I really don't like getting into this whole Lucie/Lucy thing but I just can't let this one go. Yes she has/had a lot of issues with her mom but she never called her mother a monster which is really what those "other daughters" were saying about their famous mothers. Ive heard plenty of things about Lucie but I find myself rooting for her. Mostly because she seems like a seeker to me. She does want to understand the complexities of both of her parents. Complexities that shaped much of her own life. Heres the thing. What purpose does Lucie have in talking about her mother,one of the most popular figures in entertainment history, in a unfavorable way? To be popular? After that Joan Rivers interview she got tons of hate mail. And one more thing. Does anyone here NOT think Lucy was a very complicated woman? I truly believe some people are more complex than others usually because of their childhood. But these complexities can also be the beginnings of great entertainers and make them shine beautifully.

[desilufan2]

I didn't mean to sound harsh but it's just that while I can get the less than love for Gary on TLL I don't see why so many want to paint it as a bad or doomed marriage. We all know the Arnaz union was just devastating to Lucy, the stress and misery he caused her can't be denied to anyone clear-eyed and I would hate to think that both of Lucy's marriages were lousy.

 

Yep, Desi was far sexier than Gary. Yep, he had more talented than Gary could have dreamed of being. But he was a lousy husband and he made Lucy's life hell for years. Gary was probably boring but he was calm, tranquil, safe, just what Lucy needed. And wanted. He may have loved being Mr. Lucille Ball a bit too much, I don't care, as long as he made her happy. There are tons of stories of Desi and Lucy fighting like WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF, none that I know of Lucy and Gary doing the same. We may love Lucy and Desi (or more accurately Lucy and Ricky) but I love Lucy enough to not want her to live with that just to please the fans. So in the Best husband sweepstakes it's Mr. Morton by a landslide

I can't speak for anyone else on the board but I want to make very clear that my dislike for Gary isn't beause I can't stand seeing Lucy with another man. I certainly understand why she had to divorce Desi. And yes of course he was a better husband. But that really isn't saying much since Desi was at that point a drunk and cheating on her constantly. But Gary used people and didn't always treat the people under them as they deserved to be treated. And because Lucy wanted to"give him balls" those people were not being protected like they deserved. And he was a terrible creative interferer throughout her later career and had a hand in sinking it at the very end. Finally, he was manipulative even to her! Their marriage wasn't doomed nor am I trying to say it was but I don't have much respect for him.

[Taylor]

Lucie is not a "mommie dearest" daughter. I really don't like getting into this whole Lucie/Lucy thing but I just can't let this one go. Yes she has/had a lot of issues with her mom but she never called her mother a monster which is really what those "other daughters" were saying about their famous mothers. Ive heard plenty of things about Lucie but I find myself rooting for her. Mostly because she seems like a seeker to me. She does want to understand the complexities of both of her parents. Complexities that shaped much of her own life. Heres the thing. What purpose does Lucie have in talking about her mother,one of the most popular figures in entertainment history, in a unfavorable way? To be popular? After that Joan Rivers interview she got tons of hate mail. And one more thing. Does anyone here NOT think Lucy was a very complicated woman? I truly believe some people are more complex than others usually because of their childhood. But these complexities can also be the beginnings of great entertainers and make them shine beautifully.

 

I agree that Lucy was a very complex woman. I do think, however, that the less than favorable things Lucie has said about her mother is because she is so much like Lucy. Perhaps she let out some steam on that Joan Rivers interview as it was just after her mom's death. No, I don't think Lucie would ever say her mom mistreated them physically or anything, but I do think she was probably tired of having to live up to her mom and her mom's image, and maybe felt she didn't get as much attention like her mom did.

[desilufan2]

I agree that Lucy was a very complex woman. I do think, however, that the less than favorable things Lucie has said about her mother is because she is so much like Lucy. Perhaps she let out some steam on that Joan Rivers interview as it was just after her mom's death. No, I don't think Lucie would ever say her mom mistreated them physically or anything, but I do think she was probably tired of having to live up to her mom and her mom's image, and maybe felt she didn't get as much attention like her mom did.

Always love hearing your thoughts Taylor Yes I do think Luice has some of her mom in her. Remember during the Walters interview Lucy said her daughter was always telling Desi jr what to do Im sure trying to live up to her mother's legacy(and having it overshadow her) is very hard for her. But I think at that time Lucie was just hurt,angry, and confused about why her mom was the way she was. I think she's sorted some of it out and found a certain measure of peace.

[C L A U D E]

Lucie is not a "mommie dearest" daughter. I really don't like getting into this whole Lucie/Lucy thing but I just can't let this one go. Yes she has/had a lot of issues with her mom but she never called her mother a monster which is really what those "other daughters" were saying about their famous mothers. Ive heard plenty of things about Lucie but I find myself rooting for her. Mostly because she seems like a seeker to me. She does want to understand the complexities of both of her parents. Complexities that shaped much of her own life. Heres the thing. What purpose does Lucie have in talking about her mother,one of the most popular figures in entertainment history, in a unfavorable way? To be popular? After that Joan Rivers interview she got tons of hate mail. And one more thing. Does anyone here NOT think Lucy was a very complicated woman? I truly believe some people are more complex than others usually because of their childhood. But these complexities can also be the beginnings of great entertainers and make them shine beautifully.

A N D I keep reading today that they were too much alike, hence the problems.

[C L A U D E]

Lucie will just love her mom to death, in about twenty years or so. That's what happened to me, hated so many things about my dad but with time you forget all that and remember the good times. And of course being the daughter of a legend is hard, the constant comparisons, the fact that Lucie is not well known when compared to Lucy who was a worldwide legend. And Lucy fought with Desi because they were passionate about each other, loves of a lifetime and all that, not so with gary who was too boring to incite anything but a good marriage to her public. Which is what she wanted at that point.

[desilufan2]

Lucie will just love her mom to death, in about twenty years or so. That's what happened to me, hated so many things about my dad but with time you forget all that and remember the good times. And of course being the daughter of a legend is hard, the constant comparisons, the fact that Lucie is not well known when compared to Lucy who was a worldwide legend. And Lucy fought with Desi because they were passionate about each other, loves of a lifetime and all that, not so with gary who was too boring to incite anything but a good marriage to her public. Which is what she wanted at that point.

I hope so. Sorry about yer Dad.

[C L A U D E]

I hope so. Sorry about yer Dad.

Thanks,. but I don't MEAN to keep bringing myself in this BUT Lucie and I have that in common, took me decades to realize my dad was a drunk and what he did was BECAUSE of the liquor, not him, and he was a non existent dad because of that generation being like that. I see the special Father`s day segments on The Talk and see these dads who kiss their sons and I just cry, how I would have wanted that for myself, NO, what I have is a pic of dad and I standing next to each other on the veranda and even though I was five or six, I still remember the awkwardness of us being together and how clumsy it felt, even at that age. It takes a while but I assume with all the therapy she`s had that Lucie will one day feel the same way about her mom. That she DID always find time for her, gave her her start in the business, praised anything she did to the heavens AND still supplies her with money till her dying day. FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!