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Annaleigh

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She'd have done the show with someone else, like CBS wanted, but we never would have had Desilu and she never would have found the love of her life.

 

I was going to say the very same thing.  First, she was clearly on her way before she ever met Desi with those great 1938-39 pictures like the Anabel movies and Five Came Back; then she had a great career as a movie star thoroughout the 1940's and was a smash on radio, there's no way she wouldn't have found her way to her own sitcom in the 1950's had  she and Desi never got back together after that mid 40's split. I think she probably was have just transferred MY FAVORITE HUSBAND to tv, been just an employee not an owner.  I think the show would have been just as big a hit since Lucy clearly was made for the sitcom format.  Whether the show would have been as good may be another thing - and more ominiously, we might not have it still around today but with episodes lost or uncirculated ala OUR MISS BROOKS and PRIVATE SECRETARY.  So it definitely worked out for the best that she and Desi did create their own sitcom.

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I was going to say the very same thing.  First, she was clearly on her way before she ever met Desi with those great 1938-39 pictures like the Anabel movies and Five Came Back; then she had a great career as a movie star thoroughout the 1940's and was a smash on radio, there's no way she wouldn't have found her way to her own sitcom in the 1950's had  she and Desi never got back together after that mid 40's split. I think she probably was have just transferred MY FAVORITE HUSBAND to tv, been just an employee not an owner.  I think the show would have been just as big a hit since Lucy clearly was made for the sitcom format.  Whether the show would have been as good may be another thing - and more ominiously, we might not have it still around today but with episodes lost or uncirculated ala OUR MISS BROOKS and PRIVATE SECRETARY.  So it definitely worked out for the best that she and Desi did create their own sitcom.

I think that being a BIG star, CBS might have even let her own the show or at least a huge part of it.  And yes, as even Desi said, LUCY WAS THE SHOW and Bob and Madelyn and Jess were all there with her on the radio show so they would have followed her to the tv show anyway so . . .

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What if Ann Sothern stayed on as a regular on The Lucy Show? 

What if Desi Arnaz, Jr. never left Here's Lucy?

What if the original Lucy writers never called it quits after the second season of TLS?

What if Gale Gordon co-starred in I Love Lucy as Fred Mertz?

What if Vivian Vance agreed to do the The Mertzes spin-off series?

What if the original half-hour I Love Lucy had gone on for a seventh season, eight season, ninth season, etc.?

What if I Love Lucy never existed and The Lucy Show was Lucy's breakthrough series? Would she still be considered a television icon? Would The Lucy Show have had a better syndication life?

What if Lucy Ricardo gave to birth a girl (instead of a boy), thus the Ricardos having a daughter?

What if William Frawley had died during the run of I Love Lucy?

What if Lucy was born in 1921 or later?

What if Lucy's voice had never gotten raspy and hoarse as she aged?

What if Lucy was one of the four leading ladies in The Golden Girls? How would the dynamic in that series be?

What if Life with Lucy was a smash hit or even just a sitcom with respectable ratings?

What if Lucy had never died in 1989? What would she be doing in the 90s? What if she was around now?

What if Desi Arnaz made a guest appearance in Here's Lucy as himself, Ricky Ricardo, or another character? What if he had a recurring role in the series, both on and off stage or either?

What if Lucy had never returned to television after her successful I Love Lucy run?

What if the 1972 The Lucie Arnaz Show pilot (featured as a Here's Lucy episode) led to the series?

What if the various Lucy television series had spin-offs of their own?

What if The Andy Griffith Show was a spin-off of I Love Lucy (instead of Make Room for Daddy)?

What if The Dick Van Dyke Show  was a spin-off of I Love Lucy?

What if I Love Lucy and The Lucy Show both gave birth to the same spin-off?

 

Wow, you got some real thought provoking possibilities in there.  Of particular note...

 

What if I Love Lucy never existed and The Lucy Show was Lucy's breakthrough series? Would she still be considered a television icon? Would The Lucy Show have had a better syndication life?

 

As  I wrote on my last post, I think Lucy would have ended up in a 1950s sitcom even without ILL.  I'm not so sure TLS would have happened though without ILL; she would have been over 50 then and probably with her film career years over,  not too likely a shot at tv stardom for a non-character actress.  I definitely don't think TLS would be more appreciated though if ILL never existed; much of the love that is for TLS is because it's LUCY, not that it's a good sitcom (which it is).  If she hadn't brought that ILL audience affection with her to the second series I'm not so sure it would have been more than a nice, popular sitcom of it's era and that's about it ala HAZEL or PETTICOAT JUNCTION.

 

 

What if Lucy was one of the four leading ladies in The Golden Girls? How would the dynamic in that series be?

 

We've mentioned this in the past but I can't imagine Lucy would have ever accepted TGG; she wouldn't want to be an TRUE ensemble player at that point (yes I know Lucy & Ricky & Fred & Ethel but it was of course LUCY..... with Ricky & Fred & Ethel) , Bea Arthur had a hard enough time with it herself.  Plus she was always a public prude if not a private one and I think she would have been scared of offending her big "family" following with some of those comments and stories TGG tackled.  She went the exact opposite way with LWL and made a cutesy FATHER KNOWS BEST/LEAVE TO BEAVER sitcom instead of something that was more of a modern ILL and I think THAT was her big mistake.

 

 

 

What if Life with Lucy was a smash hit or even just a sitcom with respectable ratings?

 

Interesting but I'm not so sure she would have lived longer but I think she would have absolutely been happier in the end. I've said before here LWL may have been bad but we know there were some real crap sitcoms in the 1980's that were big hits, I think LWL's uncoolness factor killed it more than anything - that and the critics, who were gunning for her.

 

 

What if Desi Arnaz made a guest appearance in Here's Lucy as himself, Ricky Ricardo, or another character? What if he had a recurring role in the series, both on and off stage or either?

This is one I've often pondered and don't think we've ever brought it up here before.  If she and Desi were  on such good post-divorce terms why was he never asked to guest star on TLS or HL?  I don't think we can totally blame it on Gary, certainly not in the TLS years.  I think particularly in the 60's the public would have found it strange for two divorced  people to costar and  Lucy certainly admitted it was awkward working with him on TLS even with him just behind the scenes.  It would have been wonderful to see them working together at least once, think of the ratings!! 

 

 

 

What if Lucy had never returned to television after her successful I Love Lucy run?

This is the most provocative and disturbing of your possibilities because it could have happened and people (not here of course!) may go on about TLS and HL being inferior vehicles but they kept Lucy popular and famous and without them I can't help but think ILL would have eventually faded into the background of television history, perhaps something like THE HONEYMOONERS, still with it's fans but certainly not a vivid part of American culture decades after it's creation.

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Wow, you got some real thought provoking possibilities in there.  Of particular note...

 

What if I Love Lucy never existed and The Lucy Show was Lucy's breakthrough series? Would she still be considered a television icon? Would The Lucy Show have had a better syndication life?

 

As  I wrote on my last post, I think Lucy would have ended up in a 1950s sitcom even without ILL.  I'm not so sure TLS would have happened though without ILL; she would have been over 50 then and probably with her film career years over,  not too likely a shot at tv stardom for a non-character actress.  I definitely don't think TLS would be more appreciated though if ILL never existed; much of the love that is for TLS is because it's LUCY, not that it's a good sitcom (which it is).  If she hadn't brought that ILL audience affection with her to the second series I'm not so sure it would have been more than a nice, popular sitcom of it's era and that's about it ala HAZEL or PETTICOAT JUNCTION.

 

 

What if Lucy was one of the four leading ladies in The Golden Girls? How would the dynamic in that series be?

 

We've mentioned this in the past but I can't imagine Lucy would have ever accepted TGG; she wouldn't want to be an TRUE ensemble player at that point (yes I know Lucy & Ricky & Fred & Ethel but it was of course LUCY..... with Ricky & Fred & Ethel) , Bea Arthur had a hard enough time with it herself.  Plus she was always a public prude if not a private one and I think she would have been scared of offending her big "family" following with some of those comments and stories TGG tackled.  She went the exact opposite way with LWL and made a cutesy FATHER KNOWS BEST/LEAVE TO BEAVER sitcom instead of something that was more of a modern ILL and I think THAT was her big mistake.

 

 

 

What if Life with Lucy was a smash hit or even just a sitcom with respectable ratings?

 

Interesting but I'm not so sure she would have lived longer but I think she would have absolutely been happier in the end. I've said before here LWL may have been bad but we know there were some real crap sitcoms in the 1980's that were big hits, I think LWL's uncoolness factor killed it more than anything - that and the critics, who were gunning for her.

 

 

What if Desi Arnaz made a guest appearance in Here's Lucy as himself, Ricky Ricardo, or another character? What if he had a recurring role in the series, both on and off stage or either?

This is one I've often pondered and don't think we've ever brought it up here before.  If she and Desi were  on such good post-divorce terms why was he never asked to guest star on TLS or HL?  I don't think we can totally blame it on Gary, certainly not in the TLS years.  I think particularly in the 60's the public would have found it strange for two divorced  people to costar and  Lucy certainly admitted it was awkward working with him on TLS even with him just behind the scenes.  It would have been wonderful to see them working together at least once, think of the ratings!! 

 

 

 

What if Lucy had never returned to television after her successful I Love Lucy run?

This is the most provocative and disturbing of your possibilities because it could have happened and people (not here of course!) may go on about TLS and HL being inferior vehicles but they kept Lucy popular and famous and without them I can't help but think ILL would have eventually faded into the background of television history, perhaps something like THE HONEYMOONERS, still with it's fans but certainly not a vivid part of American culture decades after it's creation.

WOW, love your post and your answers especially.

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Of all of those though, I think the one I would have loved would have been Desi guesting on Here's Lucy once his kids were on the show, as her ex husband, but the chances of that ever happening were slim to none.

I wish they would have shown Lucy a bit more emotional towards being a widow in TLS and HL and mentioning her passed husband. They did better in LWL with this.

 

I'm still sad an ILL reunion was never put together. I know it would've been impossible with losing Bill in the 60's. But think of the possibilities.

 

Okay, random what if that just popped in my head.

What if Lucy became a widow in the early 80's? I wonder if she would have dated or married someone. She was someone that needed a person to be with.

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I wish they would have shown Lucy a bit more emotional towards being a widow in TLS and HL and mentioning her passed husband. They did better in LWL with this.

 

I'm still sad an ILL reunion was never put together. I know it would've been impossible with losing Bill in the 60's. But think of the possibilities.

 

Okay, random what if that just popped in my head.

What if Lucy became a widow in the early 80's? I wonder if she would have dated or married someone. She was someone that needed a person to be with.

I seriously doubt that CBS and others thought that having her acknowledge that she was a widow on the show would be UP THERE in the laugh content.  Comedy shows tend to skip over things like that.  I have that ILL reunion in my head, Lucy going back to her old apartment on E 68th street and Little Ricky's living there now, that sort of thing.

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Thanks for finding all the ratings info & posting it for us, Harrison. Very interesting to see the numbers move from season to season.

 

And your list --Wow!! Some great, thought provoking questions there. I agree with Lucyilove's answers from her post above. Also, about Gale Gordon playing Fred Mertz instead of Bill Frawley, I think he would have been very good. A different version of Fred, of course, but I think he would have done it well & we would never have known what we were missing without Bill. I also think Barbara Pepper, Lucy's original choice to play Ethel, would have been terrific, too. Again, a different version of Ethel, but I can picture her doing so many of Ethel's scenes.

 

I think there was enough material to write plenty more half hour episodes for ILL, what with a new location, big new house, new neighbors, etc. Wish it had happened. They never used that staircase in the kitchen, we rarely saw the upstairs or much of the outside or of the Mertzs guest house. Missed opportunities. Oh, & maybe the Ricardo's could have gotten pregnant again & had the daughter you mentioned! Lucy may have looked a bit too old to have more kids, but she was playing 10 years younger in the Lucy Tells the Truth episode :) .

 

I think if Lucy had lived longer or was still alive today she would have still been playing games & being a bit reclusive. Hopefully spending time with her grandkids, going out to the occasional awards show. So much would depend on her health, too. Maybe someone could have written a sitcom for her & Betty White!

 

Two questions made me say, "No!" out loud & clutch my heart  :) , the first part of your question that reads; "What if I Love Lucy had never existed?" & also Joyce's, " ... What if they had never met?" Just thinking about those possibilities -- aaack! Life would be different for all of us, wouldn't it?

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Thanks for finding all the ratings info & posting it for us, Harrison. Very interesting to see the numbers move from season to season.

 

And your list --Wow!! Some great, thought provoking questions there. I agree with Lucyilove's answers from her post above. Also, about Gale Gordon playing Fred Mertz instead of Bill Frawley, I think he would have been very good. A different version of Fred, of course, but I think he would have done it well & we would never have known what we were missing without Bill. I also think Barbara Pepper, Lucy's original choice to play Ethel, would have been terrific, too. Again, a different version of Ethel, but I can picture her doing so many of Ethel's scenes.

 

I think there was enough material to write plenty more half hour episodes for ILL, what with a new location, big new house, new neighbors, etc. Wish it had happened. They never used that staircase in the kitchen, we rarely saw the upstairs or much of the outside or of the Mertzs guest house. Missed opportunities. Oh, & maybe the Ricardo's could have gotten pregnant again & had the daughter you mentioned! Lucy may have looked a bit too old to have more kids, but she was playing 10 years younger in the Lucy Tells the Truth episode :) .

 

I think if Lucy had lived longer or was still alive today she would have still been playing games & being a bit reclusive. Hopefully spending time with her grandkids, going out to the occasional awards show. So much would depend on her health, too. Maybe someone could have written a sitcom for her & Betty White!

 

Two questions made me say, "No!" out loud & clutch my heart  :) , the first part of your question that reads; "What if I Love Lucy had never existed?" & also Joyce's, " ... What if they had never met?" Just thinking about those possibilities -- aaack! Life would be different for all of us, wouldn't it?

Maybe Richard denning would have ended up as her second hubby in real life as she would have been acting with HIM on her series.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Regarding the Viv vs. ratings comments. You all seem to be overlooking a crucial point. The switch to broadcasting in color for 1965. That, I believe more than anything else allowed the ratings to improve. Had they broadcast seasons 2 and 3 in color you would have seen a spike in those as well no doubt.

 

Yes, the Danfield format was playing itself out. Had Viv stuck around I'm sure they would've found a way to freshen it up, either by having both of them move or finding a new device for them to work with. But in the end the move to California was secondary, I think, to the switch to color.

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Maybe Richard denning would have ended up as her second hubby in real life as she would have been acting with HIM on her series.

I've always found it strange how she never worked with Denning again after the radio show ended. Odder still considering how many other of the radio bit players joined her from time to time on TV. Maybe there was some bitterness over Lucy wanting Desi instead of him? Or else they just never thought of him.

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Regarding the Viv vs. ratings comments. You all seem to be overlooking a crucial point. The switch to broadcasting in color for 1965. That, I believe more than anything else allowed the ratings to improve. Had they broadcast seasons 2 and 3 in color you would have seen a spike in those as well no doubt.

 

Yes, the Danfield format was playing itself out. Had Viv stuck around I'm sure they would've found a way to freshen it up, either by having both of them move or finding a new device for them to work with. But in the end the move to California was secondary, I think, to the switch to color.

As Ricky has said, "you might got somethin' there" however I can't be 100% sure:  No offense as you weren't even born yet (!) but I grew up during that exciting "Ooh, do you have a color TV yet??" era and I honestly don't think that many folks -- even by 1965 -- had the sets yet, certainly not enough households with Nielsen boxes to make much of a significant difference.  We didn't get our first color set till around 1968 and if I recall correctly, while we were certainly never "early adopters" we weren't the last on the block to get one either.  

 

Also, I remember the 1966-67 season being the one in which there was a seemingly "big push" in which not only nearly every popular or new show that season was going to "switch" or premiere in color, but it was used extensively in all the ads for same, practically touting it as huge as the second coming (which, in a way -- at least in the broadcasting industry, I'm sure it was! ;))! 

 

While it must have been advantageous for the networks to be in on the "next big thing", we big TV fans were like kids in a candy store with so many of our favorite shows suddenly available to be seen in glorious color, for me Lucy, Bewitched, Jeannie and Lost in Space chief among them -- oh what a difference it made!

 

As old age sets in and memory fades, I forget all the particulars but I do remember what an exciting time it was.... I don't know what I could compare it to for younguns nowadays since everything now in electronic advancements happens not only much more quickly but also with regularity and lots of repetition (e.g., I've lost track how many iPods and cell phones I've had at this point -- I admit to having a fondness for the latest "gadgets"! :D).  

 

I think for me the recent conversion of everything to widescreen HD TV is the closest that comes to the B&W to color conversion era, yet it doesn't seem as exciting nor as "earthshaking" a time as it did then.... even though the difference in picture quality, clarity, etc. is startling and very much enjoyed!  ;)

 

I love this topic!  :HALKING:

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I've always found it strange how she never worked with Denning again after the radio show ended. Odder still considering how many other of the radio bit players joined her from time to time on TV. Maybe there was some bitterness over Lucy wanting Desi instead of him? Or else they just never thought of him.

And he even presented her with one of her first Emmys too!

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As Ricky has said, "you might got somethin' there" however I can't be 100% sure:  No offense as you weren't even born yet (!) but I grew up during that exciting "Ooh, do you have a color TV yet??" era and I honestly don't think that many folks -- even by 1965 -- had the sets yet, certainly not enough households with Nielsen boxes to make much of a significant difference.  We didn't get our first color set till around 1968 and if I recall correctly, while we were certainly never "early adopters" we weren't the last on the block to get one either.  

 

Also, I remember the 1966-67 season being the one in which there was a seemingly "big push" in which not only nearly every popular or new show that season was going to "switch" or premiere in color, but it was used extensively in all the ads for same, practically touting it as huge as the second coming (which, in a way -- at least in the broadcasting industry, I'm sure it was! ;))! 

 

While it must have been advantageous for the networks to be in on the "next big thing", we big TV fans were like kids in a candy store with so many of our favorite shows suddenly available to be seen in glorious color, for me Lucy, Bewitched, Jeannie and Lost in Space chief among them -- oh what a difference it made!

 

As old age sets in and memory fades, I forget all the particulars but I do remember what an exciting time it was.... I don't know what I could compare it to for younguns nowadays since everything now in electronic advancements happens not only much more quickly but also with regularity and lots of repetition (e.g., I've lost track how many iPods and cell phones I've had at this point -- I admit to having a fondness for the latest "gadgets"! :D).  

 

I think for me the recent conversion of everything to widescreen HD TV is the closest that comes to the B&W to color conversion era, yet it doesn't seem as exciting nor as "earthshaking" a time as it did then.... even though the difference in picture quality, clarity, etc. is startling and very much enjoyed!  ;)

 

I love this topic!  :HALKING:

Good point about few color households, I got my parents' first color set in the early seventies or late sixties.

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Hmm that is true. A lot of people still saw it in black and white. But I'm sure those who did have color sets were tuning in more regularly. I have a hard time picturing people going "finally that annoying Bagley Beyatch is gone!" though.

THANK YOU for that last part!
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Remember that it was Viv who left the show, she was not fired. her agent asked for the moon and people told Lucy not to give it to her and Viv went home to her gay hubby. But thank God visited now and then.

It has long been speculated that Vivian deliberately made unrealizable demands because she wanted to be let out of her contract. It just wasn't important to her anymore. She wanted to be with her husband back east full time.

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Vivian publicly said prior to the third season that she would definitely not be returning to the show for a fourth season. I think that Viv had no intention of returning and made those demands knowing that it was extremely unlikely that would be met. If she to continue to do a weekly 3,000 mile commute every week, she was going to make it worth her while. She did not want to come back, but if they wanted her back that badly that's what would have had to agree to.

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It has long been speculated that Vivian deliberately made unrealizable demands because she wanted to be let out of her contract. It just wasn't important to her anymore. She wanted to be with her husband back east full time.

Well, who wouldn't want to be with their gay hubby?  We're loads of fun.  Remember Desi in his book saying how much he hated her agent and that he was always driving him crazy.  Whatever the agent got for Viv, Desi would automatically give to Bill too.

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