1986-1989

[Annaleigh]

With all the Oscar buzz I decided to watch Lucy's final public appearance. This had me thinking about her health in those final years. Of course they say the loss of Desi and the failure of Life With Lucy took a tremendous toll on her.

 

This is mostly just for more information I would like to learn about these years.

 

Now to my knowledge Lucy had a heart attack in May 1988. But for some reason it is always said as a stroke. Even though Gary claimed it was not. So I have always been confused by this since some say it was a stroke and some others say she was "partially paralyzed" by it.

 

Hmm.. Also is there stories about her recovery from Tannen? About a downstairs bedroom or something. I haven't read his book, haven't gotten my hands on one yet. So this is all a bit fuzzy.

 

Her last days are documented well, but the years prior are a bit confusing, just health wise.

[Annaleigh]

I've also heard it said she was dreading the Oscar appearance. Mostly because of her looks, her wig causing headaches, her dress being heavy, and her not feeling too hot. (My favorite is her slit in her dress ripping, which is complete BS if you've seen any of her other gowns in the 80s with the same slit)

 

But then it is said she was very alive that night. She was full of joy, I've heard. One of my favorite clips is of her outside kicking her leg through her slit, laughing with I assume fans.

[Neil]

As far as I know Lucy's only appearances after her 1988 health issue was "Password" and the Oscars.  It appeared to be more a stroke to me, but maybe it was both a stroke and a heart attack.

From "Mame" on, people seemed to constantly point out how old she looked and that must have been tough on someone who up to Mame was working constantly; and pulled off "youthful middle age" far longer than most*.   She was still adored by the public but it was for what she had done, not what she was doing.  While knowing how much joy your past work gave people should have been heart-warming, she still wanted to work.  It's as if any signs of Lucy aging actually made people mad.  Look how often Fidelman is his otherwise excellent critique of her career points out when she looks bad, when her eyes are "baggy", etc.   Lucy got this treatment more than any other performer I can think of.

Virtually every performer (especially female) hits a point when their career is essentially over and I think for most the inactivity is tough.  On the plus side for Lucy, it's not like she was forgotten or dismissed as many were.  The fact that she was offered a series carte blanche at age 75 proved she was still perceived as a draw.  She was in demand far longer than any of her contemporaries. And yes, I think the failure of the series was tough on her.  The merits of the show could be debated but the remarks about her age must have hurt the most.

Take Kaye Ballard for instance.  A tremendous talent.  Her upcoming Palm Springs farewell show is taking place at a movie theater because as she put it "the big theaters (in town) didn't want me".   And speaking of Mothers In Law, look at Eve Arden who made several pilots that did not sell and was reduced in the 70s to doing commercials for "Roast and Boast" (which I assume was a Shake n Bake wannabe). 

 

*I don't know if it's advances in cosmetic nip n tucks or what, but our perception of actress's ages has certainly changed.  Meryl Streep is now 4 years older than Lucy was in Mame.  And ironically the most ageless actress I've ever seen is Lucie Arnaz now about the same age as her mother when Mame was released. 

[Luvsbway]

I think the health problems really started with Stone Pillow. At that age it really took a toll and it must have been hard to fully recover. Wasn’t she in the hospital for 10 days with that? Of course there was the depression from everything that happened in 86’ but I think she did rebound a bit from that.

I was always under the impression it was a stroke. If you watch the Password appearances you can see her dabbing the corner of her mouth with a tissue. In one of the books it talks about her waking up with a dead arm. Is this how a stroke starts? I think it was on a Stu radio show it was talked about that Lucy got the ok from her doctor to do the Password episodes. What she didn’t tell the doctor was that they were filmed all in one day, not a 5 day stretch. If he had known that he would not have cleared her. You can see how tired she is getting by the end of the week. Also I had heard that Gary took her to the hospital that morning. I wonder why she didn’t go by ambulance. I don’t think there ever was a setup downstairs because in Lee’s book he says that when she was recovering he went up to her bedroom to bring her the lilacs. Someone posted something Lucie was doing with a heart benefit and she said that her mother had undiagnosed heart disease. Well that’s believable with the issues that led to her death.

I’ve seen the 89 Oscar segment and she comes across very well. Compared to how older stars have been looking lately in award shows she still had it. Her mind was still there and she did not come across as feeble. I think she looked good for her age. I don’t buy the slit ripping either. I have a picture of the dress from when it was on display in the museum back around 98’ that I should compare. I think it was cut that high on purpose, as what Annaleigh said she always had the high slit in her dresses.

The trick on aging in Hollywood is to let them see you every year so people age with you. Betty White has done this. She doesn’t seem to have to compete with her younger self though since she is known for many roles and not just 1 defining part. Lucy aged with us for 3 decades, and did keep up appearances on award shows but what I think was happening in the 80’s was the start of youth obsession that continues today. Also new generations were discovering ILL, but what they knew was that 50’s look, not the older woman. I think it was a testament to Lucy’s staying power that she never did do the crap work that older celebrities had to do. No campy movies or hocking frozen peas on TV. Sure there were game shows, but Lucy was doing these since the 50’s. She was a TV girl and it did not seem beneath her start level to do them.

[Annaleigh]

I was looking at articles on her 1988 health scare. In the beginning everyone was saying it was a stroke. After the hospital stay and everything Gary Morton said the doctor dismissed it as a stroke and it was said to be a mild heart attack.

 

I have heart disease in my family and arm numbing is very common for a heart attack. The arm is one of the key signs. Whether numb, in pain, or discomfort. It just depends on your blood flow. But it's the same for a stroke also.

[C L A U D E]

Yeah, I always thought it was a stroke also, as she told the story herself of waking up, going to the bathroom in the dark, and then she thought a part of the ceiling had fallen on her but discovered it was her own arm.  My mom had a stroke and that's how it happens, paralysis, you lose one side, but you can come back from it if you work hard at it, which she did.  Remember the story about the trainer who came to get her back in shape.  The tearing of the dress, at the slit, always bothered me, I think it's another instance of Lee Tannen not remembering things right.

[C L A U D E]

How could a woman, who had wealth and could afford the best doctors wind up like that?  If she kept on smoking at that age, but at least kept herself in shape and kept herself busy, although doing mundane things when all she wanted to do was WORK, I can see her neglecting her health, she was bored to death and depressed at her thinking nobody wanted her.  That stupid thing she always talked about, only wanting to live five more years, if that's not a sign of a person giving up, I don't know what is.  Like Shirley MacLaine told Lee Tannen one time when he described her feelings, she said it would happen soon, as when a person gives up, there's not much time left. 

[C L A U D E]

How would any of you feel if you got up but all you had was playing with the dog and picking at plants until the rest of the world got up.  You don't see friends for lunch or dinner but stay cooped up in the house as you are afraid you will disappoint fans with the way you now look.  Your husband's always away playing golf and doing nothing to get you much needed work.  As I've said a thousand times, she suffered from the curse of the beautiful people and fans don't like their idols changing and getting older, they want them to stay the same which is not possible. 

[JoeySanJoaquin]

I think the health problems really started with Stone Pillow. At that age it really took a toll and it must have been hard to fully recover. Wasn’t she in the hospital for 10 days with that? Of course there was the depression from everything that happened in 86’ but I think she did rebound a bit from that.

I was always under the impression it was a stroke. If you watch the Password appearances you can see her dabbing the corner of her mouth with a tissue. In one of the books it talks about her waking up with a dead arm. Is this how a stroke starts? I think it was on a Stu radio show it was talked about that Lucy got the ok from her doctor to do the Password episodes. What she didn’t tell the doctor was that they were filmed all in one day, not a 5 day stretch. If he had known that he would not have cleared her. You can see how tired she is getting by the end of the week. Also I had heard that Gary took her to the hospital that morning. I wonder why she didn’t go by ambulance. I don’t think there ever was a setup downstairs because in Lee’s book he says that when she was recovering he went up to her bedroom to bring her the lilacs. Someone posted something Lucie was doing with a heart benefit and she said that her mother had undiagnosed heart disease. Well that’s believable with the issues that led to her death.

I’ve seen the 89 Oscar segment and she comes across very well. Compared to how older stars have been looking lately in award shows she still had it. Her mind was still there and she did not come across as feeble. I think she looked good for her age. I don’t buy the slit ripping either. I have a picture of the dress from when it was on display in the museum back around 98’ that I should compare. I think it was cut that high on purpose, as what Annaleigh said she always had the high slit in her dresses.

The trick on aging in Hollywood is to let them see you every year so people age with you. Betty White has done this. She doesn’t seem to have to compete with her younger self though since she is known for many roles and not just 1 defining part. Lucy aged with us for 3 decades, and did keep up appearances on award shows but what I think was happening in the 80’s was the start of youth obsession that continues today. Also new generations were discovering ILL, but what they knew was that 50’s look, not the older woman. I think it was a testament to Lucy’s staying power that she never did do the crap work that older celebrities had to do. No campy movies or hocking frozen peas on TV. Sure there were game shows, but Lucy was doing these since the 50’s. She was a TV girl and it did not seem beneath her start level to do them.

Well said! Especially love this:  

"I think it was a testament to Lucy’s staying power that she never did do the crap work that older celebrities had to do. No campy movies or hocking frozen peas on TV."   

[Annaleigh]

How would any of you feel if you got up but all you had was playing with the dog and picking at plants until the rest of the world got up. You don't see friends for lunch or dinner but stay cooped up in the house as you are afraid you will disappoint fans with the way you now look. Your husband's always away playing golf and doing nothing to get you much needed work. As I've said a thousand times, she suffered from the curse of the beautiful people and fans don't like their idols changing and getting older, they want them to stay the same which is not possible.

Hey. I'm not one of those that dislike aging. In the beginning, yes. But to me, I love elderly people. The stories, everything, just fascinates me. If I could have ever met her, I would've liked it to have been in the 80s. There's just something about her then.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

Does anyone have a clip of the 1990 Academy Awards where they must have had Lucille honored in the memoriam segment? I have not seen that. I only have the 89 appearence with Hope.

 

I really think a combination of no work, no Desi, and Gary not paying much attention contributed to her demise. It does seem odd her heart disease was undiagnosed. Certainly she had the best in Beverly looking after her. Didn't Lee mention a time when Lucy passed out and he called the paramedics? Surely THAT would have been the time to visit a MD.

[Neil]

Pretty sure they had not started the segment on passing people yet for 1989.

[Annaleigh]

Does anyone have a clip of the 1990 Academy Awards where they must have had Lucille honored in the memoriam segment? I have not seen that. I only have the 89 appearence with Hope.

 

I really think a combination of no work, no Desi, and Gary not paying much attention contributed to her demise. It does seem odd her heart disease was undiagnosed. Certainly she had the best in Beverly looking after her. Didn't Lee mention a time when Lucy passed out and he called the paramedics? Surely THAT would have been the time to visit a MD.

They didn't start the In Memoriam segment until I believe 1994.

[LucyImHome]

What year was Stone Pillow made?  Was it before or after Life With Lucy?

[Brock]

Before.

[Annaleigh]

What year was Stone Pillow made? Was it before or after Life With Lucy?

Stone Pillow came out in Nov 1985. I believe the production was throughout the summer of 1985.

[C L A U D E]

I was going to say to Annaleigh and Neil, that they're both nuts as I remember Lucy getting applause when her picture was shown on the In Memoriam section, but then, I remembered it was at the third Night of 100 stars, she had missed the first one as gary told her nobody BIG would be there and she did not live to see the third but she attended the second, thank God.  On the THIRD one, they showed every artist who had attended the other two and Lucy got a big hand when they showed her picture.  Bigger than Davis who had also passed away a few months after Lucy.

[C L A U D E]

Annaleigh, I did not mean to include you, I was talking about regular fans, we here are mostly SUPER fans.  We love her whatever she looks like or whatever she did.

[Annaleigh]

I was going to say to Annaleigh and Neil, that they're both nuts as I remember Lucy getting applause when her picture was shown on the In Memoriam section, but then, I remembered it was at the third Night of 100 stars, she had missed the first one as gary told her nobody BIG would be there and she did not live to see the third but she attended the second, thank God. On the THIRD one, they showed every artist who had attended the other two and Lucy got a big hand when they showed her picture. Bigger than Davis who had also passed away a few months after Lucy.

Yep. I looked that up in the past. I wanted to see the Memoriam's of the past and found out it didn't start until 1994 or 1995.

[Annaleigh]

Annaleigh, I did not mean to include you, I was talking about regular fans, we here are mostly SUPER fans. We love her whatever she looks like or whatever she did.

Well good! That lady was stunning no matter what. The most gorgeous woman to ever exist.

 

But like I always said, if she was here today she would have so much respect from the world. Look at the older actors and actresses of Hollywood, they get so much love and appreciation today.

[C L A U D E]

Unfortunately, that's very true, more respect is given to the older stars today, although that's not entirely true, there were nasty jokes about Lucy's appearance back then and older stars are still the butt of jokes today, poor Bruce Dern at the Independent Spirit Awards got treated like he was older than Moses and then Ellen pretended June Squibb was so old she could no longer hear at the Oscars so yes, it goes on today, but at least some like Betty White are treated like the National treasures they are.

[C L A U D E]

Oh and back to that slit in her Oscar gown, why would she have done that hilarious routine with lifting her leg higher and higher outside for the fans if she was risking making the tear worse?

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

I NEVAH heard about a torn slit.... Where'd that jazz come from?

[Annaleigh]

Oh and back to that slit in her Oscar gown, why would she have done that hilarious routine with lifting her leg higher and higher outside for the fans if she was risking making the tear worse?

But look at her dresses in the 80s, like that blue number you love so much. That had a very high slit too. A lot of her dresses in the 80s did.

[C L A U D E]

I know that, I'm talking about Lee Tannen saying it tore to the waist.