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UPDATED: Joan Rivers dies at 81

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I see the Johnny Joan fallout has come up here. Verne Gay wrote a wonderful article on that terrible situation that you should all read. As a huge Carson fan ive heard many of the insiders speak on this topic. And the fact of the matter is they were both wrong. Please hear me out. Joan didn't just leave the show.... she or rather her husband Edger(who was her own Gary Morton in ways) tried to take several of Johnny's staff as well, including Peter Lassally. Edger managed this transition VERY stupidly. It was wrong to leave Johnny in the dark about this. They had been planning it for months. But it was wrong of Johnny not to see that Joan needed to look ahead to her future and see she wasn't getting the full respect she deserved from the network just as he often didn't. And it certainly was wrong to hold on to it for as long as he did. But Johnny had very good reason to be angry.

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I see the Johnny Joan fallout has come up here. Verne Gay wrote a wonderful article on that terrible situation that you should all read. As a huge Carson fan ive heard many of the insiders speak on this topic. And the fact of the matter is they were both wrong. Please hear me out. Joan didn't just leave the show.... she or rather her husband Edger(who was her own Gary Morton in ways) tried to take several of Johnny's staff as well, including Peter Lassally. Edger managed this transition VERY stupidly. It was wrong to leave Johnny in the dark about this. They had been planning it for months. But it was wrong of Johnny not to see that Joan needed to look ahead to her future and see she wasn't getting the full respect she deserved from the network just as he often didn't. And it certainly was wrong to hold on to it for as long as he did. But Johnny had very good reason to be angry.

 

 

Thank you so much for adding that bit of info, I never knew that- Do you think some of that "ability to hold on to it for so long" came from his relationship with his mother.

In other words, another woman I give every thing to, betrays or  hurts me?

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Yes I do. Johnny was a complex man who often contradicted himself. He was pro woman when it came to something like equal pay and always thought women could do very well in the workplace at a time when it was liberal to think so but on the other hand his personal relationships with women were well....... and yes much of it was his mother.

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Brilliant. That lady was just as good as Meryl Streep. Note that Joan got her first writing job on Candid Camera, but was fired because she skipped work to go on The Tonight Show. This is definitely a CC type situation.

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I see the Johnny Joan fallout has come up here. Verne Gay wrote a wonderful article on that terrible situation that you should all read. As a huge Carson fan ive heard many of the insiders speak on this topic. And the fact of the matter is they were both wrong. Please hear me out. Joan didn't just leave the show.... she or rather her husband Edger(who was her own Gary Morton in ways) tried to take several of Johnny's staff as well, including Peter Lassally. Edger managed this transition VERY stupidly. It was wrong to leave Johnny in the dark about this. They had been planning it for months. But it was wrong of Johnny not to see that Joan needed to look ahead to her future and see she wasn't getting the full respect she deserved from the network just as he often didn't. And it certainly was wrong to hold on to it for as long as he did. But Johnny had very good reason to be angry.

 

It's ALWAYS enlightening to hear the 'other side of the story'!!!!  Thanks for sharing; why haven't we heard that one before? 

 

And, why, since Joan MUST have known what EDGAR was doing, does she tell it differently?  Or, did she just conveniently leave it out.  Since he died not long after that, perhaps, she HAD found out; which makes it even worse.

 

It's never wrong to hear both sides of the story, and now that I have, even though I was never a rabid fan of either, Johnny seems to have reason to have been  pi--ed!!

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Today was the funeral. In attendance were Hoda and Kathie Lee, Howard Stern, Donald Trump, Kristen Chenoweth, Whoopi Goldberg, Bernadette Peters, Kelly Osbourne, David Letterman, Rosie O'donnell, and Diane Sawyer among many many others. The NYC Gay Men's Chorus sang "What A Wonderful World" "There Is Nothing Like A Dame" and "Hey Big Spender". Hugh Jackman sang "Quiet Please There's A Lady On Stage" and Audra McDonald sang Charlie Chaplin's "Smile". Bagpipers finished off the ceremony by playing "New York, New York" then going into the streets and playing "Give My Regards To Broadway".

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I'd love to have the EXACT dates [month, day, year]  Lucille appeared with Joan when she was Hosting Johnny Carson Show.  I know Harry will have the dates; but, putting this out to each of you listening in; and many thanks to whomever comes up with same....JK

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I'd love to have the EXACT dates [month, day, year] Lucille appeared with Joan when she was Hosting Johnny Carson Show. I know Harry will have the dates; but, putting this out to each of you listening in; and many thanks to whomever comes up with same....JK

Lucy was on The Tonight Show with guest host Joan on June 4, 1982, December 3, 1984, and November 1, 1985. Lucy was also on The Late Show with Joan Rivers on October 30, 1986.

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Lucy was on The Tonight Show with guest host Joan on June 4, 1982, December 3, 1984, and November 1, 1985. Lucy was also on The Late Show with Joan Rivers on October 30, 1986.

 

BONANZA!!!!!  Thanks, Jamie....   I truly appreciate it.  Loving  you, JK

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The online campaign over this travesty has prevailed and they will dim them tomorrow night.

Yayy! I signed the petition... that made me so mad. But so glad that they reversed their decision.

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Fashion Police on E! has a fantastic special remembering Joan running this weekend. Laughed my ass off and showed how full of life this woman was. Melissa opened and closed the show.

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A friend got a DVD of "Tears and Laughter: The Joan and Melissa Story".  I've never heard of it.  It was released on DVD under another name (which escapes me right now).  Evidently the Rivers girls were bashed for starring as themselves in such a self-indulgent movie.  It dealt with the aftermath of husband Edgar's suicide.  I guess it was a bit self-indulgent but Joan was surprisingly good in dramatic scenes.  It's a shame she never delved into much REAL acting.  She did a Neil Simon play on Broadway (as depicted in the TV movie).  They didn't say which one it was.  I don't know of any other acting she did.   Melissa isn't bad the TV movie either.  This was 1994 and Joan at 61 still had a normal face.  They made mention of Fox cancelling her talk show (on top of the suicide trauma).  Other than Lucy appearances, I didn't see much of her late night show.  I enjoyed her daytime talk show.  Joan was the perfect host: engaging and natural.  I didn't realize it had such a short run: 89-93. 

Was the critical backlash so awful that Joan prevented its rerun or release?  This DVD came from a foreign company and a name change.

Makes one wonder what a Lucy/Lucie mother/daughter relationship TV movie would have been like.

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I saw this movie once the night it aired. The idea of them playing themselves was intriguing. I only remember one scene. The one outside the synogoue where they couldn't get in.

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I bought that crappy movie for a few dollars and it shocked me also, had never even heard of it before.  It was ok, I knew both ladies had had quite the estrangement when Edgar committed suicide.  If you want a real tear jerker, check out the You Tube clip of Joan winning her daytime Emmy and her mention of Edgar's suicide thru tears.  There would not have been enough plot for a Lucy/Lucie movie, unless Desi had done the same as Edgar which he did not.

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Joan starred in Neil Simon's Broadway Bound playing the role that won Linda Lavin a Tony. On YouTube is an audio recording of Joan performing the character's most memorable scene in which she recounts dancing with George Raft. I think her performance surprised a lot of people who just thought of her as a stand up comic.

 

 

Joan later starred on Broadway in Sally Marr .... And Her Escorts, which earned her a Tony nomination for Best Actress in a Play.

 

I think the only straight acting role I've seen Joan in is her minor role opposite Burt Lancaster in The Swimmer, which was before she really became famous.

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