Lucy rumours & stories - true or false?

[Caewi]

Hi all,

 

I've heard many sworn truths about Lucy over the years and was wondering if anyone could clarify the truth or debunk them or hopefully share a few new ones. We've all heard the story about her teeth and the Japenese during world war 2, so that seems like a good model.

 

Lucy and Desi rumours

Some very true sounding ones...

1. After Edie died Desi stayed in her guest house. I've heard this brought up a couple of times but never seen any suggestion that it's true from Lucy, Desi or the kids. It would be very sweet but awful for Gary and I can't picture him being thrilled if it's true. If it is true how long did he stay for?

 

2. During LWL while Desi was dying, he called her nightly in a delirium and begged her for her forgiveness for his cheating. This as published on a website that seemed associated with Michael Stern. I know that Lucy has a tough time as he was dying but this is extreme. I'd love someone to be able to confirm or deny.

 

3. Desi sent flowers every year on their anniversry. I've heard a couple of people claim this but it seemed a little out of bounds with Gary and Edie in th picture. True or not?

 

4. Lucy used to sit with other actors/actresses every week and ask about Desi and what he'd done that weekly. I think Kaye Ballard suggested this and implied that it was every week like clockwork. I can't imagine she did that for his whole life? It sounds like a lot of work with a lot of risk of Gary finding out. It would say a lot if it's true so any confirmation or denials would be interesting.

 

5. That Lucy took blank bullets and fired them where Desi claimed he had shot blanks in case the police investigated. I think I read this in a book but it sounds CRAZY! Surely they made that one up?

 

Lucy and Viv

 

1. The overweight contract clause. I've heard a lot of people say that this true and lots say that it isn't. Most seem to settle that the contract was joke but the importance of Viv being overweight was real. I find this doubtful. Lucy was gorgeous but clearly so was Viv and I didn't see any attempt to hide this.

 

2. Lucy let Viv spend over a year living in the house. Lucy arnaz brought this up in a very vague way. What, when, why?

 

Desi jr and Lucy

1. That desi jr had an affairs with Dean Martin's wife and Lucy had his things towed over with a happy Mother's Day message. An affair with Dean martin's wife when he was friends with Dino? surely not? Lol to Lucy's reaction if it's true?

 

Lucy and Gary

1. There have been a couple of suggestions that Gary had an affair or wanted to over the years? Any known truth to these?

 

2. Lucy and Henry Fonda having a 1968 romance. Jane Fonda claimed this in a Barbara Walters interview although she said she want certain. Does anyone know if there's any truth to it?

 

More to come as I think of them but I've read so many stories over the years so I would love to know the truth. Please add more, I love learning new things about our favourite comedienne.

[Neil]

I've heard all of these.  You get contradictory information from different sources.

Viv's appearance on "Dinah" put the overweight clause to rest.  I'd love it if I was bound by some contract to remain 20 pounds overweight.  I can just hear Viv at a dinner party when a 2nd helping of cheesecake is offered. "I love to pass but I'm legally bound to have a 2nd slice".

Speaking of affairs, Desi makes a semi-vague reference to Lucy also having affairs (or an affair) during the waning years of their marriage.  He handed her a note with a man's name on it, was the way I remember him writing about it.  As for Desi's retelling of Lucy and the revolver.  He makes it sound like Lucy thought it was real and was going to shoot him, but when a flame came out instead of a bullet, he calmly lit his cigar.  Sounds extremely unlikely. (She's in a rage and keeps the flame going long enough for him to light the cigar??)  Even blanks can do damage.  Remember Jon-Eric Hexum.

And I think it was gossip-monger, best friend of all female stars Herbert Kenwith who said he caught Lucy and "Dream Girl" co-star in a compromising act.  Herb tells his stories in a straight-forward manner, but I find him hard to believe.  His recollections are always so negative.

[Luvsbway]

I've heard many sworn truths about Lucy over the years and was wondering if anyone could clarify the truth or debunk them or hopefully share a few new ones. We've all heard the story about her teeth and the Japenese during world war 2, so that seems like a good model.

 

The teeth thing was debunked by Mythbusters on one of their first season episodes. I was trying to find this for someone the other day on YouTube and it’s not posted anymore. I have a copy of it and they also interviewed Jim Brouch.

 

Lucy and Desi rumours

Some very true sounding ones...

1. After Edie died Desi stayed in her guest house. I've heard this brought up a couple of times but never seen any suggestion that it's true from Lucy, Desi or the kids. It would be very sweet but awful for Gary and I can't picture him being thrilled if it's true. If it is true how long did he stay for?

 

This has been one of my mysteries I would like cleared up. I had read and heard the same thing. That she extended the offer to him to stay in the guest house but what I never have been able to confirm is if he took her up on the offer. As far as the uncomfortable factor I don’t think this was something that bothered Lucy given the type of relationship they had the past 25 years. Now as far as Gary not liking it yeah I bet he didn’t but yet again I have no conclusive proof that he ever did stay in the guest house.

 

2. During LWL while Desi was dying, he called her nightly in a delirium and begged her for her forgiveness for his cheating. This as published on a website that seemed associated with Michael Stern. I know that Lucy has a tough time as he was dying but this is extreme. I'd love someone to be able to confirm or deny.

 

I think there was remorse on his part at this time and I think I had heard he expressed this. I also heard about him doing a similar thing around the time the book came out. As for calling nightly I have no idea. What I do know confirmed by Stu on one of his shows is that during Life With Lucy’s continuing failure she called him frequently for advise on how to fix the show. I’d have to go back and check Mike’s book to see if anything is mentioned about this, but offhand I don’t recall that it is.

 

3. Desi sent flowers every year on their anniversry. I've heard a couple of people claim this but it seemed a little out of bounds with Gary and Edie in th picture. True or not?

 

Absolutely true. It is confirmed by many people that this did happen. They were red and white carnations. I was rereading a 70s article on Desi the other day and he says in the article he sends her the carnations on the anniversary. I also heard Wanda say that Lucy would always look forward to them. I think he also did this on her birthday and based on a Mother’s Day card that was in one of Lucie’s ebay auctions probably for each Mother’s Day too.

 

4. Lucy used to sit with other actors/actresses every week and ask about Desi and what he'd done that weekly. I think Kaye Ballard suggested this and implied that it was every week like clockwork. I can't imagine she did that for his whole life? It sounds like a lot of work with a lot of risk of Gary finding out. It would say a lot if it's true so any confirmation or denials would be interesting.

 

I read in an article that if she ran into someone they knew or a press person that she knew recently talked to him that Lucy would corner that person and ask how he was doing. I would think that if they had mutual acquaintances how he was doing would come up in conversation. They also talked very frequently on the phone as well but I think the reports from others may be more of a concern in that is he really ok and not just lying that his health is ok or other things you might want to hide from someone that loves you.

 

 

 

5. That Lucy took blank bullets and fired them where Desi claimed he had shot blanks in case the police investigated. I think I read this in a book but it sounds CRAZY! Surely they made that one up?

 

This had something to do with an incident in Del Mar in the 60s. Apparently some rowdy teens were on the beach and he fired at the sand to get them to go away. The kids I think called the cops and Lucy made sure there were blanks at his place to help his story out.

 

Lucy and Viv

 

1. The overweight contract clause. I've heard a lot of people say that this true and lots say that it isn't. Most seem to settle that the contract was joke but the importance of Viv being overweight was real. I find this doubtful. Lucy was gorgeous but clearly so was Viv and I didn't see any attempt to hide this.

 

The overweight contract clause was in a fake contract Lucy made for a This is Your Life type party for Viv. Viv reads this contract on the 75’ Dinah! episode that can be watched on the Season 6 Here’s Lucy DVD set. It unfortuanlly has taken on a life of it’s own and keeps getting reported as fact.

 

2. Lucy let Viv spend over a year living in the house. Lucy arnaz brought this up in a very vague way. What, when, why?

 

I have never heard anything about this. Why would she do this?

 

Desi jr and Lucy

1. That desi jr had an affairs with Dean Martin's wife and Lucy had his things towed over with a happy Mother's Day message. An affair with Dean martin's wife when he was friends with Dino? surely not? Lol to Lucy's reaction if it's true?

 

I heard this rumor too and have never actually seen it printed or verified.

 

Lucy and Gary

1. There have been a couple of suggestions that Gary had an affair or wanted to over the years? Any known truth to these?

 

The Howard Rafel book talks about some trip he was on and whoever he was with wanted to get some girls but Gary was too scared that Lucy would find out. It is also rumored that he was up to something while she was in San Fran shooting Yours Mine and Ours. If he did do anything he was able to keep it a big secret. If he wanted to do anything is a whole different question. From everything I’ve ever read or heard he was very accountable to Lucy where he was, what time he was coming home, etc… I don’t think this was some rule Lucy had but just something that he wanted to do. Of course if you are on your best behavior for 20+ years and gain trust it could be easier to get away with things. There was no trust and lots of jealousy on both sides in the first marriage. This marriage didn’t have that. It was a much different dynamic. Lucy also told Gary’s mom that when they got married if he did anything he was gone. I always wonder if in the later years of their marriage he knew that he could get away with more as by this point in her life for many reasons Lucy would not have left him.

 

2. Lucy and Henry Fonda having a 1968 romance. Jane Fonda claimed this in a Barbara Walters interview although she said she want certain. Does anyone know if there's any truth to it?

 

The only thing I have ever heard about this is Jane saying something on that interview. I have never seen the interview. She said something to the fact that her dad was in love with Lucy during the shooting of that movie. Who knows if anything happened and the way I hear the story it was just an attraction.

[Caewi]

I can see Viv enjoying that, especially by TLS years. I think we have different stories about the blanks. I was referring to the time after they were divorced when Desi shot blanks at some idiot on his property while his daughter and a friend were there. He was just trying to scare the guy but it seems he was arrested for it and he defended himself by claiming he had shot blanks. The story goes that Lucy was scared they wouldn't find anything and he would be in a hell of a lot of trouble. Supposedly she brought down blanks to Del mar and sprinkled them round in case the cops checked. It would be a big (and illegal) act.

 

I always doubted that piece of paper the guys name on it story. She loved him more anything and I don't think she wanted another man. Did a Desi claim this story in his bio? Apparently he kept a list of all of the men he thought she had slept with and it was a long list. I really dint think she ever wanted anyone else so I think we could chalk this down to desi's paranoia.

[HarryCarter]

Desi jr and Lucy

1. That desi jr had an affairs with Dean Martin's wife and Lucy had his things towed over with a happy Mother's Day message. An affair with Dean martin's wife when he was friends with Dino? surely not? Lol to Lucy's reaction if it's true?

 

I heard this rumor too and have never actually seen it printed or verified.

 

.

This was in Howard Rayfiel's book. Doris Day's son, Terry Melcher, also said Jeanne Martin propositioned him while he was dating Deana Martin.

[Luvsbway]

When were the Martin ' s married?

 

Interesting that it was Jeanne that was the instigator. I thought it would be the other way around.

[HarryCarter]

When were the Martin ' s married?

 

Interesting that it was Jeanne that was the instigator. I thought it would be the other way around.

Dean and Jeanne were married in 1949 and separated in 1969. They weren't officially divorced until 1973. After Dean divorced his next wife, he and Jeanne became very close again.

 

I don't know if Jeanne instigated this relationship, but it sounds like she certainly might have.

[Luvsbway]

As far as the lovers list goes I had always heard a rumor about this but came across this passage in a book that seems pretty credible that it existed. Yeah I’ll give you paranoia, jealousy, mistrust as to why it was kept/made.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=5Av3mAaWglUC&pg=PA395&lpg=PA395&focus=viewport&dq=lucille+ball&output=html_text

 

As far as the story about the guy in NYC at the end of marriage. Desi does talk about it in his book. Basically she is screaming at him and threating him with stuff (after he asked for the divorce) and he shows her the name and phone number of a guy in NYC and she turns every shade of red. You have to realize at this time that even though the love never died there were was a lot of pain and hate piled on top. She probably had a lot of reasons to actually have someone on the side. From what I have read she seemed really lonely at this time as they were not spending any time together due to many circumstances. He also says in his book that they did not have sex for the last 2 years of the marriage. I cannot believe that she went without for 2 years. So if she knows someone in NYC that she could have a thing with on the down low in another city that would keep it secret and met her needs that were not being met at this time it’s not farfetched.

 

In either the Desilu book or the Lucille book it talks about Desi hiring a detective to follow Lucy at the end of the marriage. This has more credibility with something he would do because he says he had one follow around Edie’s husband when they were dating. So the story goes that he’s setting sail to go to Europe or someplace without her and his traveling companion (maybe one of the Bobs?) says Desi got a shipboard call. When he came back to the railing of the ship he had tears in his eyes. Basically indicating the he found out news he didn’t want to hear.

 

Right before they were married Desi talks about the phone call he had with Lucy in Milwaukee before she came to NYC. Lucy had taken his phone call in the hotel lobby and got into a screaming match with him on the phone as he was accusing her of sleeping with the mayor and that is why she was not coming to NYC sooner. Lucy says she doesn’t even know the mayor. The way he tells the story in the book even in 1973/4 he doesn’t seem 100% sure she was telling the truth.

 

I had never heard the co-star Dream Girl story. I also don’t take anything the bitchy queen Herb says with any basis in reality. I wonder what injustice Lucy did to Herb for him to say such crap about her. I’ve never heard a positive thing from him. I think he just likes to hear himself talk and make up this crap like with Lucy attacking him on HL.

[C L A U D E]

Caewi, the story of the man's name on paper is at the end of Desi's book, as it comes from him, how on earth could you doubt it, he then let Lucy proofread his book and she only wanted to delete anything that could hurt their kids and let the story stand as TRUTH.

[Caewi]

I hear you Claude but I think that Lucy didn't intend to let Desi's version stand as the absolute truth, just as his version of the truth. She took out anything that could hurt the kids but then let his version be his truth. To me, there's a difference but maybe I'm wrong. 

[C L A U D E]

Listen, I would have preferred the story NOT be in there as it makes Lucy look bad, but why would Lucy remove that for the sake of their kids, they knew what the heck was going on, Desi fooled around 1000 times and Lucy 10, that's about as even as it gets for women doing what men have always done, LOL!

[Caewi]

Another two that I've heard but questioned. 

 

1. That Desi / Gary convinced her to do Mame and fought for her to get the role. I've heard this rumour both ways. Any truth to either

 

2. That Lucy and Desi nearly got re-married around Desi Jr's 8th birthday. Lucie mentioned that although at the time she though they would get back together she thinks now that there was no chance. I've read a couple of book suggest to varying degress that they were very close to getting back together. Does anyone know and did Desi actually get to the point of re-proposing? If so, when does this fit into the Gary/Wildcat timeline?

[Luvsbway]

Not sure if she really need any convincing to want to do it. Gary would have been totally for it I would believe. Big movie like that. So much has been written about how she got the role, Angela not getting the role. Some have said that Lucy had money in the movie. Someone with more knowledge can weigh in on how she actually got the role as there have been stories flying around for years.

 

 

 

2. That Lucy and Desi nearly got re-married around Desi Jr's 8th birthday. Lucie mentioned that although at the time she though they would get back together she thinks now that there was no chance. I've read a couple of book suggest to varying degress that they were very close to getting back together. Does anyone know and did Desi actually get to the point of re-proposing? If so, when does this fit into the Gary/Wildcat timeline?

 

We had a discussion on a previous thread putting together the Gary timeline and here is what we came up with,

 

So 1960 goes like this:

 

 

Early March: Last LDCH filmed and filed for divorce. We’re challenging this date is debated on another thread)

June/late May - Facts of Life began production. Lucy had her accident on July 2 and filming stopped for two weeks. Production completed in August or just before.

May 4, 1960: Divorce finalized

Aug/Sept: Lucy heads to NYC to start rehearsal

October 30, 1960: Wildcat opened in Philadelphia

Dec 16th- Wildcat opens in NYC

Dec 20: meets Gary.

April 12, 1961- Engaged

May 1961-Ring stories in papers this month

May 17, 1961- Divorce finalized

Nov 19, 1961- married

 

As you can see the time from when she meets Gary to engagement is pretty quick. I think she was juggling 2 men from Dec through Feb. Apparently she was seen around town with Desi a lot in Jan 1961. There is the famous ring story accounted in books. Lucy says that it brought back all the bad memories and that she knew then they could not be together. The Desilu book talks about this FOL, show opening period and that they were pretty close and it’s hinted they may have gotten back together. Desi was at the opening, helped with the show, took her to Del Mar to recover from the FOL accident, was at that FOL press luncheon. He was around a lot for having just gotten divorced. I think that Lucy knew she could not trust herself to not go back unless she had someone else and grabbed on to the first guy that made her laugh.

 

In one of the books it does say that Desi did propose but I’m not sure when she gave him an answer though. It was also reported that she bought him a Vicuna coat to wear when he came to NYC since it was so cold but things happened and I believe he stopped coming to NYC. Maybe she broke it off, maybe the Gary thing really ramped up.

If you look back through her life I don’t think she was very often without a man. For such a strong willed, independent woman she seemed to really rely on having a man for whatever reason. I think what she sought out in guys in her younger days changed as she got older. In reading this transition period from the 3 books my consensus was she needed someone to lean on. One of the books talks about her mother making her see that she was not getting any younger and the kids were getting older she was going to be alone. She picked someone who she could lean on. When you have been with men all your life and then to not have a steady man around you are bound to go find one anyway you can, be it running back to the ex or running to the next best thing. At this point she was ready to do both. I think the decision she made was the best of the 2 at the time, but the ultimate would have been to give herself some alone time. Of course this may have resulted in her running off to Switzerland or wherever and then not having the career she had. Heck we may only have known her for just one decades worth of work to make her famous and not the legacy of 30 more years of Lucy on TV and movies.

[C L A U D E]

Desi never wanted Lucy to do Mame.  Yes, Lucy did have SOME money invested in the film, but not that much considering it's cost.

[rickylu]

I remember Frank Gorey speaking at a Jamestown festival saying that at one point during Wildcat, Desi met up with Lucy after a show and as Frank put it, he "thought things would be very different in the morning". But they weren't.

[Luvsbway]

The things that man could really dish on. Him and Wanda offer so much insight and information but they have this wonderful way to make it not come across as gossipy.

[C L A U D E]

Maybe they should have written a book TOGETHER?

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

What about this.." I don't talk to the help" remark supposedly said through an assistant to airline stewardesses when Lucy flew commercial? Is THAT why Lucy and Gary had a private jet? Its cool with me if this is true.. I think the lady earned her snarkyness... its out of charecter for LUCY Ricarmicharter but kinda awesome if THE LB uttered those words.

[C L A U D E]

I hope not, not like her at all.

[Luvsbway]

These airline stories I think are no where near any kind of truth. As for a private jet. They are very expensive to own. Most people just charter them. I think Lucy mainly flew commercial unless a location or timing didn't allow for that.

[Taylor]

I've never heard of Lucy and Gary having their own jet.  Like Luvsbway said, they are expensive to own and knowing how Gary liked to pinch pennies...no, can't see that.

[C L A U D E]

Of course they never owned their own jet.  I believe it was in Tannen's book that he mentioned that when Lucy "chartered" a jet to go to Snowmass, that if she had known how EXPENSIVE it was to charter one, she never would have done it.

[Luvsbway]

Yeah Snowmass makes sense as that was a bit more remote.

[Brock]

What about this.." I don't talk to the help" remark supposedly said through an assistant to airline stewardesses when Lucy flew commercial? Is THAT why Lucy and Gary had a private jet? Its cool with me if this is true.. I think the lady earned her snarkyness... its out of charecter for LUCY Ricarmicharter but kinda awesome if THE LB uttered those words.

 

Here's a story Jamie Farr told me that pretty much debunks this attitude:

 

http://www.lucylounge.com/index.php?/topic/783-jamie-farr-on-lucy-a-lucy-lounge-exclusive/

[C L A U D E]

Wow, forgot about that, what a terrific article, thanks for posting it bud.