The Arnaz/Ball marriage

[Caewi]

Edie knew his ways before they got married. It isn't "handling", she was someone that put up with it. We don't know too much about her, but she was there. Like always it was rough but in some sense she had to be "okay" with the cheating. The addiction aspect I'm sure she got on his ass often about it. Maybe they had an open marriage? I don't know. But it has been said they had their own divorce scares.

 

This is all just my opinion though.

 

Also with Gary and the kids, they had to have liked him. That was there main father figure they saw most often. Now they may now see the mistakes he has made and realize that Lucy and Desi were truly in love until the end. But that doesn't hurt their love towards Gary. That was a father figure for them.

 

What she meant by handling is tough to tell. I get the feeling that she responded to him with humour and was calm when he was heated.

 

I disagree that Gary was their main father figure. Everyone has said that the kids were split quite equally between Lucy and Desi, so the kids saw him for half the time. By all accounts Desi did the more adventurous, parenting activities so I think his impact on raising them was very significant. I agree with Desilufan2 that Lucie's comments in interviews paint a picture. It's not so much that she says bad things, it's that she avoids saying overly good things. She always seems somewhat hesitant and never relaxes or becomes excited when talking about him. Many times I would almost call her defensive. I know that has no reason to lie, so he obviously wasn't awful, but I think her feelings were never those of love or a deep bond. I think that a fair bit of this would come from her close relationship with her father. She's been clear that she adored her father and when she was young, certainly didn't want her mother to remarry. To accept another father figure would be very difficult. It's also quite clear from the Archive Interview that she doubted his business skills. I wonder as well if she knew or felt that Lucy was still in love with Desi? This must have impacted her ability to take him seriously. 

 

Good quote re Lucie and Gary's relationship, 2011. http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/arts/2011-02-10/i-do-3-lucie/

AC: Back when you were a teen, your mom was married to Gary Morton at that point...? Did you grow up with Gary or was Desi [dad] a big part of your life? 

LA: Both. Legally I guess, this was not joint custody in those days, so my dad had weekends and summers, and then of course you get to a certain age where you're 15 or 16, I was on The Lucy Show. I really couldn't go anywhere for the whole summer anyway. But I visited my dad on a regular basis. And we had double Christmases and double birthdays. The time after they were divorced, once I got over the fact that daddy wasn't gonna be there anymore, which was very painful for a 7-year-old, in truth, the following years were much better because the two of them still loved one another and they still depended on one another and still talked to one another and they were less vicious to one another. Gary was a good stepparent. At times I resented him, like, 'don't tell me what to do, you're not my father.' But in fact, he tried really, really hard, and he had a good spirit about him. He was funny. He made my mother laugh, so he calmed her down a lot, and it wasn't so bad.

 

Another, 2006. http://simonfanshawe.com/?p=31

“There’s a message in the show,” she says, “although it’s a musical comedy and we don’t hit people over the head with it. So the show has got lighter since we started rehearsing. But underneath all the fun and the laughter it’s about the dangers of letting darkness into your life. If you start thinking that other things outside your life can make you happy that’s when you get into trouble.” We’re talking about her parents again. Although maybe more about her father, towards whom she so obviously has a daughter ‘s devotion. She is so clear about her mother and so soft about her father, I wonder if she has a particular image of him. There’s a hiatus and suddenly she is ambushed by her own emotions and she says, “I’m going to cry. It’s hard.” And she tells a story.

“When you said that, the one that popped into my mind was being on a boat aged 15 and him in his ripped red and white chequered lucky fishing shirt, his cigarillo (she clicks her tongue) chewed, hanging out of the side of his mouth… a wet, torn fishing straw hat. Helping me hold onto my fishing rod. He wouldn’t put his weight on it but he would just show me how to hold it. He made me do it myself and helped me reel in my first couple of marlin.” She imitates his voice “One more time…. up…. reel it down, ata girl, up….. reel it down one more time… ata girl for 45 minutes. Then he’d get a big bottle of beer or seawater and pour it over my head to cool me off…. that particular sunny, hot, wonderful day was such a great fun day… him showing me, teaching me, trusting me, not doing it for me but just teaching me how. And I don’t think I could have had three kids naturally if I hadn’t caught those two marlins by myself….” She laughs, wipes her eye and says “You just don’t think you can do it and you hear him saying ‘You can do it, just one more time’ “. Odds on then it’ll be Desi she thinks about on opening night. Not Lucy.

 

 

Short one, 2013: http://www.thewestonforum.com/10507/farewell-to-weston-entertainer-lucie-arnaz/

"Ms. Arnaz considered herself “Daddy’s girl”

 

 

 

Let's not forget the music that she involves herself in now is mostly related to Desi. 2011, http://www.thewestonforum.com/10507/farewell-to-weston-entertainer-lucie-arnaz/

PCC:

Were you surrounded by Latin music growing up?

LUCIE:

Not all the time, because Dad wasn’t home all the time, unfortunately. If he had been home more often, I’m sure I would have heard even more of this. But when he was home or when we spent summers with him or when I was a teenager and he was married to his second wife, Edie, he would grab his guitar and he would play after dinner. And one of the songs he used to sing to Edie is actually on the CD, a song called ‘I Love You.’

We had a couple of opportunities, not nearly enough, but a few opportunities, as grown-ups, to work with him. He was the host of Kraft Music Hall one year and Desi and I were on it and we had to do the straw hat number and I did ‘Under The Bamboo Tree’ with him. He was the king of the carnival in Miami one year, 1982, and both Desi and I performed with him at the Orange Bowl. I did the ‘Cuban Pete & Sally Sweet’ number with him and Desi did ‘Babalu.’ There would be the odd benefit here and there. And I would hear him sing. Or he and I would do a few things. But not much. So a lot of this was new stuff to my ears.

PCC:

So even after all the success he had as an actor and a producer, he never lost his passion for music?

LUCIE:

Oh, absolutely. I know that, in the late ‘70s, after he wrote his autobiography and he was on a book tour, promoting the book, he also wanted to try to do the Desi Arnaz Orchestra again and get a tour for that. There was plenty of paperwork about that. After he died, I found all of these files. I felt bad, because, apparently it never took off. He couldn’t get the bookings. He’d been out of the public eye too long. And he wasn’t in great shape at that point. He was drinking pretty heavily and I think he just, at that point, thought, ‘I’ve got to something.’ And he wanted to go back, but it was too late. But these records, this music, was when he was at his prime, when he was the Desi Arnaz that my mother fell in love with.

 

 

She knew her father had flaws but she adored him. I've never read any such warm tales with Gary. If anything I feel like she was most grateful that he kept her mother laughing and encouraged the peace. 

 

Does anyone else find it odd and almost all of Lucy's friends are certain that she stayed in love with Desi but we've never really read or heard much for her that suggested she actually felt that way? I know she obviously had to keep it from getting to Gary but still... I've read some down right cruel things that she's said about him long after the divorce. If she was still deeply and overwhelmingly in love (which events such as the Kennedy Centre suggested she was), where is the evidence from her. Most of the time I feel like I'm reading the opposite of love from her. 

 

Oh and article backing up the divorce discussion between Desi and Edie. You're right, 1974 so around the book writing time. It really makes me wonder how both he and Lucy were feeling then. Then again her BW interview was around then and as you say Lubsway, she clearly wasn't tempted to try it again around then. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19740909&id=9NBOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IAIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6779,5561167

 

I wish we knew more about how Lucy, Desi and Gary felt. The Home Movie was suppose to answer our questions but I'm still not sure if she regretted the divorce at any point or just missed him.

[Caewi]

Considering what happened with the now infamous auction a few years ago, I wonder if Lucie's relationship with Gary changed at all after he married Susie McAllister.

 

Wow, what happened at the auction? I haven't heard about this! What happened re Susie?

[Brock]

Wow, what happened at the auction? I haven't heard about this! What happened re Susie?

 

Susie decided to have a pretty considerable auction of stuff she still had of Lucy's which was left over from Gary, such as Lucy's Rolls Royce, a number of portraits, framed photos, and career achievement awards, along with love letters from Lucy to Gary, etc. This rankled Lucie, particularly the paintings and the awards (especially the awards as Lucy willed them to Lucie), and she sued to stop the auction. She was only partially successful, however, and able to recover the items which were rightfully hers.

 

Some articles from the time:

 

http://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/lucille-ball-memorabilia-from-the-estate-of-gary-morton-including-love-letters-rolls-royce-awards-and-artwork-at-auction-in-beverly-hills.s?releaseId=1862

 

http://voices.yahoo.com/is-susie-morton-selling-lucille-ball-memorabilia-for-6406390.html

 

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/lucy-ball-auction-16738/

 

http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/Lucille-Balls-lifetime-achievement-awards-are-withdrawn-from-the-auction-block--set-to-be-given-to-daughter-Lucie-Arnaz/7782925

 

http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/Lucille-Balls-love-letters--Rolls-Royce-to-be-put-on-auction--while-legal-battle-to-continue/7782933

 

http://trialandheirs.com/blog/celebrities/lucille-balls-daughter-fights-to-save-heirlooms

 

... and it went international as well:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/7892804/Lucille-Ball-heirs-in-row-over-auction-of-stars-belongings.html

[Luvsbway]

Thanks for those article links. I remember reading that Witches one back when she was doing that show. I had forgotten that fishing story. I think that is a great example of how she was able to have a better relationship with her father because he had such a wonderful outlook on life and was fun to be around. Her mom just seemed to never really be able to relax.

 

I agree that you never get the warm fuzzies from Lucie when talking about Gary. I think she respected the fact that he was supportive of her career later on and kept her mom happy but she never saw him as a replacement father. Compare that with the few times I’ve heard her talk about Edie. It’s a very different tone. The one story I always like is how Edie taught her to drive. You get the sense in that Academy interview that they had a close relationship. I think they might have had the relationship she wished she had with her mother.

 

I think Lucy was never vocal about the continued love because she had to be very guarded about it. Guarded from letting Gary really know her true feelings in that she may have been scared that he might leave her (although he had it pretty good so that would be stupid) and guarded that the public would look on her badly. I think the cruel comments may have come from anger and hurt that she never really got over what her did to her. If she didn’t love him anymore she would be able to let it go. I was thinking this morning about the love letters found after she died. They were in a drawer in the bathroom, very accessible. They could have easily been stored in chest where she had other sentimental things. Also in the move to BH it was a conscious decision to put them there. I wonder if there were times she would lock herself in the bathroom, sit on the floor and read those reflect on the past

[Annaleigh]

It's hard for anybody to have step parents. Especially in those days. I didn't mean to make it sound like Desi wasn't a good father, I meant more along the lines that Gary was in that father figure category. Same with Edie.

 

I can see why the kids enjoyed going to their fathers. A more relaxed environment, like a true home. They could actually spend some time with their parents there. I always knew they had a soft spot for Desi, especially Lucie. I always remember what they said about him in the home movies, he had such a love of life, a joy for things. He took time out to look at the simple things.

 

Shelly, I've always thought that about those letters. Especially after Desi passed on. Even though we don't have "public" evidence about her love. We have stories that have been told throughout their lives.

[Luvsbway]

Some articles that hit on some points we have been talking about.

 

This article was printed in the “National Enquirer” on September 14, 1976:


“Desi Arnaz Reveals: I Still Love Lucy” 

“I don’t care what her present husband thinks about it – I still love Lucy!” admits a candid Desi Arnaz.

“I still send her red and white carnations on our wedding anniversary. You can’t be married to the same person for 16 years (!?) and then wipe them out of your life just because of divorce.

"The important thing is that we are very best friends now. She knows I love her and would do anything for her at the drop of a hat. She is the mother of my children.”

Lucy agreed that she and Desi – once “America’s sweethearts” – still have a soft spot for each other. “Desi and I do care about each other as the very best of friends – even though we're not married,” confided the fabulous redhead in a separate interview. 

“We had some great times together.

“It was just that we couldn’t make our marriage work out because we’d grown so different over the years,” Lucy explained.

“Desi had a blind faith in my abilities without ever giving me the cooperation I needed from him.

“But we learned how to solve that when we separated – and today we have a very special place for each other in our hearts,” Lucy admitted.

Lucy married nightclub entertainer – and now top producer (!?) – Gary Morton after her divorce from Desi. 

And Desi has been married for 13 years to Edith Hirsch. Recently Desi spoke openly about why his marriage to Lucy collapsed.

“Our marriage broke down because we were two very different people,” he explained. 

“We had tremendous arguments over what seem to be insignificant things, but we never could reach that compromise to hold it together,” Desi continued. 

“Lucy was a woman who liked cool weather, while I wanted to bake in the heat. She would walk around the house to open every window in the place, and I would follow and close them all up,” Desi recalled. 

“But even though the marriage collapsed – our loved did not.

“I make no bones about the fact that I still love her. There’s never been a period in our lives when we felt we couldn't call each other.

“Last year I was very sick with an aggravated chest cold that just wouldn’t go away,” Desi continued. 

“My son Desi telephoned the news of my condition to Lucy who was vacationing in Aspen, Colo. She had just broken her leg learning how to ski, but at moment’s notice she chartered an ambulance plane and few to be by my side.

“She was a marvelous tonic, and the two of us helped cheer each other up tremendously.

“And just last year we hosted our son Desi’s 21st birthday together.

“It’s just like I’ve always said: There’s more to ‘I Love Lucy’ than the title of a television show.” 

[Luvsbway]

Here are some excerpts from an article from June of 1963 called "Desi Loves Lucy Edie" :

Mr. and Mrs. Desi Arnaz, having just tied the knot in a suite of the Sands Hotel in Las Vegas, were examining a horseshoe of red roses. A simple card read: “You both picked a winner—Best always…” Among the other gifts and wires to Desi and the former Edie Mack Hirsch, there was nothing unusual about this message except for the signature. The sender of the greeting was Desi’s ex-wife, Lucille Ball.

Less than a week later, on their honeymoon at Desi’s Indian Wells Country Club, the newlyweds bumped into the sender and her own new husband, Gary Morton, at a Palm Springs pool party. Jimmy Durante’s wife, who had been Edie’s matron of honor, is possibly the friend to whom this report had been attributed: “They came together, shook hands and congratulated each other in the most natural, sensible and sweetest way. Whoever was there had only the most favorable things to say about how they all behaved…so friendly…exactly how four intelligent, modern and goodhearted people ought to behave in such circumstances.” Other guests said that, for the first time they could remember, Lucy and Desi seemed relaxed in each other’s company. As for Gary and Edie, it is said that they maintained a correct, unembarrassed and slightly amused attitude. But all four, each in a different way, were openly pleased with the new and neat arrangement of their lives. 

***


When Lucy left Desi and went through the divorce, the erstwhile head of Desilu Studios, in a moment of agonizing reappraisal, vowed he’d never marry again. It was widely interpreted as a reference to his Catholic religion, but later developments failed to sustain this notion. The vow, while sincere enough at the time and springing out of Desi’s grief and sense of failure, actually referred to what he himself called “the mess I made.” This mess, he explained, was based on his realization that he had not succeeded in making Lucy happy and had now probably caused great upset and insecurity to the two children whom he loved so deeply, little Lucie and Desi Jr. “I’d be afraid to try my luck again,” Desi said. 

In Hollywood, however, his vow was never taken seriously. It was generally agreed that Desi liked his fun too much to remain licking his wounds in seclusion for long. “Desi likes booze, broads and nags, in that order,” said one TV-land prophet. “But he likes living alone even less…he’ll go that route again.”

This prediction seemed to be borne out as soon as Lucy married Gary Morton. Desi was at first shaken, then strangely uplifted by the news that Lucy was resuming her life with her old-time zest and delight. On his visits to the Morton home to see his children, Desi was impressed with the serene new order that prevailed. 

****

With regard to the romance between Desi and Edie Hirsch, it may be said that he got off to a better start with her than he had with Lucy. Perhaps in no other particular since his divorce has Desi shown his good taste, intelligence and responsibility so well. Edie, as the song goes, is a lady. Unlike some of those blowsy, brassy girls he used to run around with , Edie is cultured, world-traveled, independently wealthy, pretty in a poised and interesting manner all her own. A charming forty-five, she disdains to hedge about her age. But then she doesn’t have to; she hardly looks it. And as a possible bonus to Desi’s memory of other years, she is redhaired, almost the identical color to Lucy’s until the star had hers lightened for her new show. Also like Lucy, when Edie (Desi seldom calls her anything but Edith) filed against Clement Hirsch in Mexico, she set forth such reasons as: “He often left me alone…he kept associating with other women, even bragged about his conquests...” In court, she stated, “Many nights he wouldn’t get home till 3 A.M., and if I asked him where he’d been, he’d say it was none of my business.” In her settlement, Edie disclaimed any share in her husband’s various firms. 

*** 

Desi: “Maybe the urge to act, direct or produce will hit me again. We’ll see. But for now, what Edith and I have here in Palm Springs…a wonderful, peaceful routine of living…would be hard to give up. We keep active, what with the Country Club, the stables and sports. But we’re not changing anything yet.” To this, Edie nods and smiles. “We do plan on a European vacation after the summer racing season…but, as Desi says, we’re not changing anything yet.”

On her part, Lucy feels the reshuffling of marriages has brought her a blissful relationship with Gary and significant benefits for her children. “This is not to take a thing away from Desi, who adores the kids,” she explains earnestly. “He just never could muster the time to be more than an in-between father and husband—in-between his home and his work. He felt guilty about it, and I guess it made him too generous and permissive. He’d have given them anything their little hearts desired, and that’s as bad as giving them nothing. Then the atmosphere at home was always so charged that, even when we weren’t arguing, the silence was like a tug-of-war, too. This had to have a bad impact on the kids. With Gary, everything’s different. He makes the house feel calm orderly and easygoing.”

About Desi’s marriage. Lucy says, “Of course…of course, I’m delighted for both of them. The day I picked up my divorce papers, I said I was sorry it had to happen. I meant it. You can’t live with a man for so many years, and have children, and then go your separate paths without a twinge of regret. Desi and I aren’t mad at each other, never were. But the truth, as painful as it may be to say it, is that Desi never truly loved me, and we were never truly suited to each other. It took a long, rough ride for me to realize this, but once I did, the inevitable had to happen. I said many times that Desi would meet somebody one of these days whom he can love and build a real marriage with—and I honestly believe that he’s found that somebody in Edie Hirsch. I wish them the cream of the best…” 

[Luvsbway]

November, 1967 edition of the TV Radio Mirror titled “Lucy Weeps! Desi Near Death in Freak Accident!”.


As in the hospitable custom south of the border, Desi, Edy and the children were invited to partake of cool refreshments in the home of the community leader, the man who owned the largest house (which also served as a hotel) and acted as mayor, chief of police and official greeter. The Arnazes settled back comfortably in chairs on the veranda. The view was exquisite—like the painting of a blue lagoon—

Then it happened!

In the villagers’ enthusiasm to welcome their guests, the veranda started to creak, with the weight of such a crowd dangerously weakening the dried-out boards.

Desi, though, was unaware of this. The warning cracks were drowned out by excited voices. And then, suddenly, a huge man climbed the wooden stairs and approached Desi.

“This man was the biggest person I’ve ever seen,” Desi recalled. “He must have weighed more than 300 pounds.”

The friendly-looking giant had only taken a few steps when the entire veranda collapsed in splinters! Edy and the children and everyone else went plummeting to the ground, four feet below. But Desi somehow—perhaps because he was rising from his seat to shake hands with the giant—was flung outward by the impact, and came crashing down against the trunk of a large mangrove tree.

His body bounced off the tree and landed with a sickening thud on a wooden stake holding up a bush. The stake might just as well have been a bayonet, and Desi rolled on the ground in pain.

Even so, his first thoughts were for the safety of others. “Are you all right, Edy?” he cried. “How about the kids?”

Miraculously, everyone else managed to emerge unscathed from the broken boards. Only Desi himself could not get up. The heavy stake had been pushed deep into his right side by the force of his fall. Though it did not penetrate the skin, Desi quickly realized that the impact had ruptured something internally.

The pain was excruciating, and he began to vomit blood. Horrified, Edy and Desi Junior immediately rushed to his aid. So did several townspeople, including a war veteran who had had first-aid experience. He made Desi lie completely still. If he didn’t get to a hospital soon, as he said later, “I would have bled to death.” But the nearest hospital for handling such an emergency was hundreds of miles away, in the United States. 

“Only the previous week,” Desi said later, “I considered removing a radio telephone I had had installed on the yacht, figuring I had never used it!”

It was this radio telephone which helped save his life. The skipper of the yacht put in an emergency call to the Scripps Memorial Hospital in La Jolla, just outside of San Diego. Fortunately, Desi’s physician, Dr. Fred Bass, was in the hospital visiting another patient. Within an hour, Dr. Bass took off in a two-engine place.

Luckily, the pilot was very familiar with the San Juanico area, having landed there on several occasions when the village was an active port. But he had troubles. By the time the place circled over the area late in the afternoon, fog had rolled in and obscured the landing strip. 

In desperation, the pilot brought the plane down on a stretch of dirt road near the beach.

Dr. Bass quickly diagnosed Desi’s condition as severe internal bleeding. Blood clots, he feared, had already formed unless Desi underwent surgery soon—he would be a dead man.

“I prayed and prayed all the way,” Desi remembers.

Late that night, at Scripps, Dr. Bass operated to stop the bleeding. Desi had lost pints of blood. During the flight, he was kept alive with transfusions.

All this time Edy and the children prayed, too. They had flown back with Desi, and stood a bedside vigil all night.

In the confusion, Lucy was not notified until early the next morning. Edy was still with Desi, but she had arranged for someone at the hospital to make the call—and the moment the phone rang, Lucy had an instant premonition that something was wrong. 

At first, when she was told “Desi” was injured, she thought they meant her son. Tears of shock came to her eyes as she learned that it was her former husband, and years of memories came flooding back. Frantically striving to be patient, she kept vigil by the telephone until a second, more welcome call came: the one that told her Desi was out of danger and would live! 

The “lost” village of San Juanico won’t soon be forgotten by Desi Arnaz—and vice versa. In gratitude for its inhabitants’ quick action and their role in saving his life, Desi is planning several innovations for them.

First of all, he’s setting up a hospital there, primarily for the children in the area, which is surrounded by hundreds of miles by virtual wilderness. You can be sure, too, that one section will be devoted to emergency cases, like his own! Sorely needed for some time, the hospital will be a decided blessing (from Heaven and from Desi). Cost is estimated to be about $250,000. Keeping it going will raise the ante even more, but Desi is only too happy to be able to provide it.

“I want those kids to have the same breaks in life as children would have any place in the United States,” he says. “Giving them a hospital is one of the best ways I know of to do it.”

As a fine a gesture as this is, it’s his second plan that has tongues wagging and the local citizenry scurrying happily around town! Unemployment has been rife in the little community. About 600 workers—virtually the entire adult population of the town—have been idle since the cannery closed down three years ago. Desi is going to reopen it and put the people back to work.

As you can imagine, this is spreading no little joy throughout every nook and cranny of San Juanico. Desi, however, insists that this will be a moneymaking venture, and that altruism was only one of the considerations that led to his decision to reactivate the cannery.

“Don’t get me wrong,” he says, with his engaging grin. “I’m glad to have an opportunity to put all these people back to work. That part of it makes me very happy, believe me. But, first and foremost, I expect to have a prosperous business out of this, too!”

San Juanicans are so happy about it all—both hospital and cannery—they’ve planned a big fiesta for a celebration. But, no matter how grand this fiesta for the man who “put San Juanico on the map,” it can never surpass the thankfulness still overflowing the hearts of Lucy and all those who truly care what happens to

[Luvsbway]

 

 

[desilufan2]

Very interesting articles. The part were Desi was asked if he was jealous of Gary made me laugh. The "Desi never really loved me" line showed Lucy's hurt once again. Notice she didn't say "Desi and I realized we never really loved each other."

[Caewi]

Here are some excerpts from an article from June of 1963 called "Desi Loves Lucy Edie" :

This prediction seemed to be borne out as soon as Lucy married Gary Morton. Desi was at first shaken, then strangely uplifted by the news that Lucy was resuming her life with her old-time zest and delight. On his visits to the Morton home to see his children, Desi was impressed with the serene new order

 

 

On her part, Lucy feels the reshuffling of marriages has brought her a blissful relationship with Gary and significant benefits for her children. “This is not to take a thing away from Desi, who adores the kids,” she explains earnestly. “He just never could muster the time to be more than an in-between father and husband—in-between his home and his work. He felt guilty about it, and I guess it made him too generous and permissive. He’d have given them anything their little hearts desired, and that’s as bad as giving them nothing. Then the atmosphere at home was always so charged that, even when we weren’t arguing, the silence was like a tug-of-war, too. This had to have a bad impact on the kids. With Gary, everything’s different. He makes the house feel calm orderly and easygoing.”

About Desi’s marriage. Lucy says, “Of course…of course, I’m delighted for both of them. The day I picked up my divorce papers, I said I was sorry it had to happen. I meant it. You can’t live with a man for so many years, and have children, and then go your separate paths without a twinge of regret. Desi and I aren’t mad at each other, never were. But the truth, as painful as it may be to say it, is that Desi never truly loved me, and we were never truly suited to each other. It took a long, rough ride for me to realize this, but once I did, the inevitable had to happen. I said many times that Desi would meet somebody one of these days whom he can love and build a real marriage with—and I honestly believe that he’s found that somebody in Edie Hirsch. I wish them the cream of the best…”

 

Thanks so much for those articles, they are some of my favourite!

 

You don't think the part about him not being able to muster the time to be with his family was a cheap shot? I know she has always said that she was the one or spent all the time with them but the kids seem to remember it differently. I thought this was an unnecessarily cruel thing so say. Why insult his parenting skills and follow it up by praising the step father? Desi never had one less than positive thing to say about her parenting and their kids seem to think she had her flaws.

 

The talk about her coming to this realisation, the inevitable happening and then him being able to build a 'real' marriage. Yikes! To share this to the media was a low blow. He did try very hard in their marriage to give her the career she wanted and he loved her with all of his heart. I wouldn't call this fake or somehow not real enough. It's so odd. On one hand we have people like Lillian Brighs saying that she saw him when he was dying, came out and broke down saying he was the one love of her life ( sorry Gary!) On the other we have her coming out with comments like this. He was saying good things about her, it was a positive article, why draw out the insults? This is by no means the only time either. In one horrific article she talked about his behaviour and faults only a a few months before his death.

 

Good point about the comment Desilufan2. Perhaps at the root of some of this she loved him deeply and just wasn't convinced he loved her as strongly? Feelings of inadequacy and hurt can make you say some awful things.

 

I love the article where Desi is talking about Lucy and Gary. He seemed to draw a grudging distinction between the different forms of Lucy love. Me thinks he may not have felt like his love had changed at all since passionate marriage marriage! He didn't talk too much about Gary, certainly no good stuff. He he, the word jealous from the reporter might have captured it. I feel awful for poor Edie though. To have him jealous of the new husband years after he has remarried is very hard. She must have been a strong, confident and understanding lady.

 

I also loved Lucy chartering a flight (despite a broken leg) as soon as she realised he was sick. Makes me wonder about Lee's book where he said that she was nervous about seeing Desi at Lucie's wedding and clearly implied that they hadn't seen each other, virtually since the divorce. Doesn't gel with all this talk about constant phone calls and seeing eqch other other at a moments notice?

[Caewi]

Thanks for those article links. I remember reading that Witches one back when she was doing that show. I had forgotten that fishing story. I think that is a great example of how she was able to have a better relationship with her father because he had such a wonderful outlook on life and was fun to be around. Her mom just seemed to never really be able to relax.

I agree that you never get the warm fuzzies from Lucie when talking about Gary. I think she respected the fact that he was supportive of her career later on and kept her mom happy but she never saw him as a replacement father. Compare that with the few times I’ve heard her talk about Edie. It’s a very different tone. The one story I always like is how Edie taught her to drive. You get the sense in that Academy interview that they had a close relationship. I think they might have had the relationship she wished she had with her mother.

I think Lucy was never vocal about the continued love because she had to be very guarded about it. Guarded from letting Gary really know her true feelings in that she may have been scared that he might leave her (although he had it pretty good so that would be stupid) and guarded that the public would look on her badly. I think the cruel comments may have come from anger and hurt that she never really got over what her did to her. If she didn’t love him anymore she would be able to let it go. I was thinking this morning about the love letters found after she died. They were in a drawer in the bathroom, very accessible. They could have easily been stored in chest where she had other sentimental things. Also in the move to BH it was a conscious decision to put them there. I wonder if there were times she would lock herself in the bathroom, sit on the floor and read those reflect on the past

This is perfect! Thank you for saying it all! The bathroom was a really weird place to put the letters. I think there must be some truth to her locking herself away with them but why the bathroom!? Surely there was a risk of Gary or the house keeper finding them there. You would think she would have put them somewhere safer. Didn't Gary remodel the bathroom? That could have been a shock. They must have been very important and private for her not to have included them in her scrapbook. I wonder how often she looked at them after her died.

 

Lucy's relationship with her children was obviously complicated and not a dream come true. I completely agree with you, I think her relationship with Edie was warm, honest and very supportive. Certainly what she wanted and seemed to feel she didn't get from her mother. We obviously agree re Gary and lucie. I wonder if any of this changed after Gary's death? We've eard some very negative things about Gary at that time.

[Luvsbway]

That story about Lucy being apprehensive at the wedding from Lee’s book I never understood and called bull on the first time I read it. They for sure saw each other a lot. There are pictures of them at events together as little as a few years before and I’m sure it was more frequent in private. Heck it wasn’t even the first wedding for either kid so you can’t even interpret it as she was nervous about how they would be at marrying off a kid as both had/or where in 1 marriage already. I wonder if Lee misinterpreted something she was trying to say. If you’ve seen the pictures from the wedding those were not of a couple who were afraid to see each other. There was a whole lotta love between each other in those shots

[Will]

I love those articles hope more are found.  I agree with all being said.  lee's book is not my favorite and annoys me. 

[chedderchester]

I remember how near the end of L&D a Home Movie, there's a black and white picture of Desi giving flowers to Lucy, presumably a year or so before his death because of what they looked like. What was that from?

[Luvsbway]

That was from Lucie's wedding in 1980.

[JessiLu]

On 4/8/2014 at 7:19 AM, Caewi said:

Does anyone else find it odd and almost all of Lucy's friends are certain that she stayed in love with Desi but we've never really read or heard much for her that suggested she actually felt that way? I know she obviously had to keep it from getting to Gary but still... I've read some down right cruel things that she's said about him long after the divorce. If she was still deeply and overwhelmingly in love (which events such as the Kennedy Centre suggested she was), where is the evidence from her. Most of the time I feel like I'm reading the opposite of love from her. 

 

This thread was fun to read – lots of great articles in here.

Just wanted to follow up on this one point about Lucy saying cruel things about Desi publicly, long after the divorce. Indeed, I remember reading one article where Lucie recounted a conversation with her mom where her mom claimed to have never said anything negative about Desi publicly, but she called her mother on it and reminded her about a few things she had said about her Dad over the years that Lucie didn’t like. 

I’ve found this to be interesting. While I totally agree that Lucy wasn’t forthcoming about her love for Desi post-divorce, I can’t really think of any comments that were all that cruel.

Granted, there was that one comment where Lucy said she had come to the realization that Desi never loved her. But that was made in the years just following the divorce when the pain was still fresh and I’m sure she was trying to convince herself that in an effort to move on. (My theory, anyway.) And then there was her go-to “booze, broads and gambling” comment when asked why she and Desi split up, but that wasn’t anything he didn’t publicly talk about in his own book. It was just a fact. And then there’s that Barbara Walters interview, which on its face might have seemed a little cruel but if you actually listen to what she’s saying,  she isn’t calling him a loser in the typical sense of the word. As she put it - in a very poor choice of words - he was a gambler by nature and had to lose. (That said, I have always wondered what Desi and Lucy’s next phone conversation was like after that interview aired! Another sidenote: I think it’s a shame that when you type “Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz”  into the YouTube search engine, that interview is the first to come up with the title “Lucy on Desi: ‘I Married a Loser.’ )

Anyway, I was just curious if those were the “cruel” interviews being referenced, or if there’s something I’m missing here.

[Neil]

Decades show "Hollywood Couples" featured Lucy and Desi.  The show looks like it was made in the 90s.   Bob and Madelyn, Richard Denning and Desi Jr. are interviewed.  The show is done as cheaply as possible, pan/zoom-ing stills to accompany narration.   Very few clips shown.  Only one from ILL: Hospital Panic, a grainy, blotchy print with dust on the film!  That and a couple of movie trailers.   Nothing new here, except I've never seen a Denning interview before.   And there was some footage of 1960s or 70s Desi golfing.  A couple of bloopers:

"They welcomed their first child in July 1950"  (Lucie was born in 51)

"Lucy, Vivian Vance and William Frawley all won Emmys"

"CBS and Phillip Morris said no, but Desi was adamant that the pregnancy be worked into the plot of the show"  (I think it was Jess's idea). 

The narrator pronounced "Favorite Husband" co-star Bea's last name as Beneder-AY before and after the Denning interview where he pronounces it correctly. 

A couple of pictures that didn't match the narration time-wise.  "In 1960, the cast had a teary farewell"  with a shot of Vivian backstage after a "Wildcat" performance, looking like both of them were crying.