Jerry Herman bio

[C L A U D E]

I disagree, having only seen it that way a hundred times until getting my own big screen HDTV this past year and WOW!! what a difference it makes!! Next best thing to seeing it in a theater I have to imagine since I never got the chance but DEFINITELY much more enjoyable than on a "regular" TV screen all those years previous!

I can't describe it but an example is Streisand in Funny Girl, the "My Man" finale number. She's in BLACK with a black background, so all you see is her face and hands and as she gesticulates the screen is showing these humongous hands and her gigantic face hitting you from the huge screen and it's just an incredible sight, then you see the film on TV and it's just nothing, so small, no impact, they cut it to fit the regular tv screen and i think her hands barely show or sometimes not at all, same thing for Lucy in Mame, you are absolutely right, she is a giant entertainer flooring us with the sight of her dancing and singing and owning the screen. It's the people writing the books and doing the reviews who see it differently, saying she is better when seen on a smaller tv screen, do they mean to them she is not bigger than life but to us lifelong die hard fans she is?

[Neil]

I disagree, having only seen it that way a hundred times until getting my own big screen HDTV this past year and WOW!! what a difference it makes!! Next best thing to seeing it in a theater I have to imagine since I never got the chance but DEFINITELY much more enjoyable than on a "regular" TV screen all those years previous!

 

There is ONE unprocessed close up of Lucy in Mame (it's sort of 'snuck' in) and she looks fantastic, which makes me wonder why all the trepidation about her "aged" appearance. (Does anyone know what shot I'm talking about?)

This wasn't in this Jerry Herman book, but I've read somewhere that Lucy herself INSISTED on soft-focus shots. I'm sure she wanted to be photographed as flatteringly as possible, but the 3 or 4 glaring soft-focus shots that prompted the gleefully written attack/reviews are the fault of the cinematographer.

I think Lucy's performance would have been more CONSISTENT with Cukor directing. He was that "old Hollywood" that Lucy respected. I don't think it was so much that Lucy was un-direct-able, there were just few directors she had total trust in. Obviously Saks was not one of them; and it's impossible to say whether that was Gene's fault or Lucy's. (though as always people tend to BLAME LUCY.) There are several scenes in which Lucy's performance misses the mark and I wish he had shot them over. I'll post MY opinion later of which needed a take 2. There are an equal number of scenes where she's great and that's what makes "Mame" so frustrating. It would have been so nice for Lucy to have had a career capper.

[C L A U D E]

There is ONE unprocessed close up of Lucy in Mame (it's sort of 'snuck' in) and she looks fantastic, which makes me wonder why all the trepidation about her "aged" appearance. (Does anyone know what shot I'm talking about?)

This wasn't in this Jerry Herman book, but I've read somewhere that Lucy herself INSISTED on soft-focus shots. I'm sure she wanted to be photographed as flatteringly as possible, but the 3 or 4 glaring soft-focus shots that prompted the gleefully written attack/reviews are the fault of the cinematographer.

I think Lucy's performance would have been more CONSISTENT with Cukor directing. He was that "old Hollywood" that Lucy respected. I don't think it was so much that Lucy was un-direct-able, there were just few directors she had total trust in. Obviously Saks was not one of them; and it's impossible to say whether that was Gene's fault or Lucy's. (though as always people tend to BLAME LUCY.) There are several scenes in which Lucy's performance misses the mark and I wish he had shot them over. I'll post MY opinion later of which needed a take 2. There are an equal number of scenes where she's great and that's what makes "Mame" so frustrating. It would have been so nice for Lucy to have had a career capper.

I know, at least an Oscar nomination, but if she had accepted Driving Miss Daisy and done that, she would have gotten it for that like Carney got it for Harry and Tonto. But Lucy was gone by the time the Oscars were given the following year anyway. Is it the scene where she's dancing in the Loving You sequence and she's shown dancing in that giant ballroom and they show her up close without any change in the camera focus? When they turn around on her? In that gorgeous black evening gown and the gorgeous hair?

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

There is ONE unprocessed close up of Lucy in Mame (it's sort of 'snuck' in) and she looks fantastic, which makes me wonder why all the trepidation about her "aged" appearance. (Does anyone know what shot I'm talking about?)

This wasn't in this Jerry Herman book, but I've read somewhere that Lucy herself INSISTED on soft-focus shots. I'm sure she wanted to be photographed as flatteringly as possible, but the 3 or 4 glaring soft-focus shots that prompted the gleefully written attack/reviews are the fault of the cinematographer.

I think Lucy's performance would have been more CONSISTENT with Cukor directing. He was that "old Hollywood" that Lucy respected. I don't think it was so much that Lucy was un-direct-able, there were just few directors she had total trust in. Obviously Saks was not one of them; and it's impossible to say whether that was Gene's fault or Lucy's. (though as always people tend to BLAME LUCY.) There are several scenes in which Lucy's performance misses the mark and I wish he had shot them over. I'll post MY opinion later of which needed a take 2. There are an equal number of scenes where she's great and that's what makes "Mame" so frustrating. It would have been so nice for Lucy to have had a career capper.

Which scenes needed a take 2?? I think the "I'll get a blood test" scene would benefit from a shot of scotch!.. also the scene with Patrick walking her to her car...I do love how she says... "beastly babbidy little snob on the eastren seaboard.. or will you be able to make that quite clear without any help from me"..anyway.. what scenes do you think need a take 2??? Also.. I love that shot of her in the buggy with Beaureguard in that bluish dress and big hat.. would that color be considere Perywinkle Blue?? Always wanted a Perywinkle Blue Cadillac !

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

Where the hell did you get THAT? Bette only wanted the VERA role, she knew she was never a possibility for Mame. And Joe, i meant insignificant for the role of Vera as it is such an incredibly small role for someone of Davis' stature.

I'll tell you where I got that.. from a book called "Conversations With Bette Davis" by Bose Hadleigh... That's where the hell I got the fact she wanted to play the title role of Mame.. she considered herself quite a good singer...

[C L A U D E]

I'll tell you where I got that.. from a book called "Conversations With Bette Davis" by Bose Hadleigh... That's where the hell I got the fact she wanted to play the title role of Mame.. she considered herself quite a good singer...

Never heard of it and never heard she longed to play Mame, she was never considered and only made a fuss seeking the secondary minor role of Vera. Which she also LOST, thank the Good Lord. She was despised by directors, a lot more than Lucy ever was and when she was fired from one of her last roles, i forget the name, they asked Lucy to replace her knowing Lucy would not be the problem she was. But it was a lousy role and Lucy did not want it either, so they hired someone else who was then filmed from the back and filled in the holes. I've read many books on Davis and she was so full of herself, at least Lucy was never that way.

[C L A U D E]

I'll tell you where I got that.. from a book called "Conversations With Bette Davis" by Bose Hadleigh... That's where the hell I got the fact she wanted to play the title role of Mame.. she considered herself quite a good singer...

Oh, ok, i hereby apologize for what YOU perceived as a bad TONE there, i should have just said where on earth did you ever read that? S O R R Y ! I was just tired and there are so many upsetting things said in that particular thread that rile me so, i am really sorry that you took it as a mean thing to say to you, no disrespect was ever intended as you seem to really know your Lucy stuff. Maybe it was the fact that i had just seen a clip of little pea brain fatty herbie kenwith interviewed between movies on TCM and i was still pissed at that.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

Oh, ok, i hereby apologize for what YOU perceived as a bad TONE there, i should have just said where on earth did you ever read that? S O R R Y ! I was just tired and there are so many upsetting things said in that particular thread that rile me so, i am really sorry that you took it as a mean thing to say to you, no disrespect was ever intended as you seem to really know your Lucy stuff. Maybe it was the fact that i had just seen a clip of little pea brain fatty herbie kenwith interviewed between movies on TCM and i was still pissed at that.

HEY! I didn't perceive a bad tone!.. I like friendly BANTER.. and I was just trying to let you know where I found that particular info ... Bette was full of herself and did think she was a good singer ... she thought she was.. I've written a letter to dat tie... anyway... why are you so pissed at that queen kenwith?? (I'm dyin' to know!) And thanks for the compliment about knowing my Lucy Stuff.. I just know what I read and watch.. but I am obsessed with Lucy.. and if Bette or Joan Crawford or any female conterpart to Lucille spills over, I have to know about that too!

[C L A U D E]

HEY! I didn't perceive a bad tone!.. I like friendly BANTER.. and I was just trying to let you know where I found that particular info ... Bette was full of herself and did think she was a good singer ... she thought she was.. I've written a letter to dat tie... anyway... why are you so pissed at that queen kenwith?? (I'm dyin' to know!) And thanks for the compliment about knowing my Lucy Stuff.. I just know what I read and watch.. but I am obsessed with Lucy.. and if Bette or Joan Crawford or any female conterpart to Lucille spills over, I have to know about that too!

little herbie pea brain kenwith just never had anything good to say about Lucy and was a real queen all right, always hanging out with the old broads like Crawford and all, his blurb on TCM was about Crawford, he was probably the one who stirred up the trouble on the set when Lucy worked with Crawford on her show. Like showing up drunk and not knowing her lines was normal behavior for a pro?

[Neil]

"Mame" RETAKES part ONE!!

 

Pre-record sessions: Don't worry so much about Lucy hitting the notes dead on. This interfered with a more free-wheeling interpretation she might have done as an actress.

FIRE the orchestrator. They're mostly terrible when they need to be exciting. And there doesn't seem to be any support for Lucy's singing voice. Proper orchestrations would have helped a lot.

Although she created some great stuff for Lucy, FIRE the costumer (AND hair/wig style creator--I assume this was NOT Irma) because some of her stuff is GHASTLY.

 

-"It's Today" number: re-score. Replace that vampy rhythm opening with the original Broadway 2/4. Arrange orchestrations and add background ("Oo-oo") singers to make Lucy sound as good as possible. Opening notes acapella: WHAT were you thinking?

-Post "It's Today" dialogue: meeting Patrick. Lucy's speaking voice is too rough. Loop it or re-shoot. Eliminate soft-focus close-ups. It's our introduction to Mame as a character and we HAVE to LOVE her. I think this was the point where critics made up their mind and nothing Lucy subsequent could change them. Lucy's "Oh my GAAWWWD!! I'm your AUNTIE MAME!!" was really the wrong reading of those lines. Her "GAAWWD" is so abrasive, it would have scared poor Patrick. This is the moment where she welcomes him with open arms, but Lucy comes off as gruff rather than loving. But playing off this Patrick as portrayed by Kirby Furlong, who could blame her? Patrick needs to be ADORABLE and elicit our sympathy; and this actor does neither which hurts the crux of the whole movie more than most people realize. The Broadway Patrick was so cute he got a Tony. I can't believe this kid is the best they could come up with. I feel bad beating Furlong up. He would have been fine in a more pedestrian movie, but "Mame" needs an actual ACTOR.

-Vera passing out. You can't blame the 'boys' for looking fearful when their job was to catch a dead-weight Bea Arthur, but either get a smaller stunt double or hire stronger chorus boys!!

-"It's Today" reprise...again with the acapella! see ABOVE.

-"Open a New Window"--for the most part this sequence is great. The morning scene with Patrick is Lucy at her finest. Her speaking voice is a whole lot sprier than in the party scenes. Her singing is greatly improved over "It's Today" (too late to redeem herself with the critics). The "Window" bridge ("If you follow your Auntie Mame...") features the first of many unflattering costumes and wigs (the close-cropped brown one). Lucy's "If you wake up every morning..." extreme close up really points this out. Her facial expression/mouthing of the word "these" is especially unflattering. Ending it with the orchestra overlapping Babcock ringing Mame's doorbell was a mistake.

-the usually bright John McGiver may have been a bad choice as Babcock, but he's given practically no lines in his car scene with Bea/Vera. He needs to be fleshed out a bit as Mame's adversary. As an actor, he looks like he doesn't want to be there. Mostly he just stares grumpily with a flat affect. He adds nothing to the "crash of '29" scene and the movie needs him to be engaging. He died a year later so may not have been well. The scenes between the end of "Window" and "The Man in the Moon" performance are dull, dull, dull and the movie grinds to a halt.

-Mame and Vera discussing the show: pick up the pace! The script is not funny enough here and to make matters worse, space is left for laughs! Plus Mame has just lost Patrick and her mood shifts much too fast.

That's all for part one.

I know it sounds like I HATE the movie, but I'm leaving out all the things I think are wonderful and nitpicking the parts I feel damage the movie.

[C L A U D E]

"Mame" RETAKES part ONE!!

 

Pre-record sessions: Don't worry so much about Lucy hitting the notes dead on. This interfered with a more free-wheeling interpretation she might have done as an actress.

FIRE the orchestrator. They're mostly terrible when they need to be exciting. And there doesn't seem to be any support for Lucy's singing voice. Proper orchestrations would have helped a lot.

Although she created some great stuff for Lucy, FIRE the costumer (AND hair/wig style creator--I assume this was NOT Irma) because some of her stuff is GHASTLY.

 

-"It's Today" number: re-score. Replace that vampy rhythm opening with the original Broadway 2/4. Arrange orchestrations and add background ("Oo-oo") singers to make Lucy sound as good as possible. Opening notes acapella: WHAT were you thinking?

-Post "It's Today" dialogue: meeting Patrick. Lucy's speaking voice is too rough. Loop it or re-shoot. Eliminate soft-focus close-ups. It's our introduction to Mame as a character and we HAVE to LOVE her. I think this was the point where critics made up their mind and nothing Lucy subsequent could change them. Lucy's "Oh my GAAWWWD!! I'm your AUNTIE MAME!!" was really the wrong reading of those lines. Her "GAAWWD" is so abrasive, it would have scared poor Patrick. This is the moment where she welcomes him with open arms, but Lucy comes off as gruff rather than loving. But playing off this Patrick as portrayed by Kirby Furlong, who could blame her? Patrick needs to be ADORABLE and elicit our sympathy; and this actor does neither which hurts the crux of the whole movie more than most people realize. The Broadway Patrick was so cute he got a Tony. I can't believe this kid is the best they could come up with. I feel bad beating Furlong up. He would have been fine in a more pedestrian movie, but "Mame" needs an actual ACTOR.

-Vera passing out. You can't blame the 'boys' for looking fearful when their job was to catch a dead-weight Bea Arthur, but either get a smaller stunt double or hire stronger chorus boys!!

-"It's Today" reprise...again with the acapella! see ABOVE.

-"Open a New Window"--for the most part this sequence is great. The morning scene with Patrick is Lucy at her finest. Her speaking voice is a whole lot sprier than in the party scenes. Her singing is greatly improved over "It's Today" (too late to redeem herself with the critics). The "Window" bridge ("If you follow your Auntie Mame...") features the first of many unflattering costumes and wigs (the close-cropped brown one). Lucy's "If you wake up every morning..." extreme close up really points this out. Her facial expression/mouthing of the word "these" is especially unflattering. Ending it with the orchestra overlapping Babcock ringing Mame's doorbell was a mistake.

-the usually bright John McGiver may have been a bad choice as Babcock, but he's given practically no lines in his car scene with Bea/Vera. He needs to be fleshed out a bit as Mame's adversary. As an actor, he looks like he doesn't want to be there. Mostly he just stares grumpily with a flat affect. He adds nothing to the "crash of '29" scene and the movie needs him to be engaging. He died a year later so may not have been well. The scenes between the end of "Window" and "The Man in the Moon" performance are dull, dull, dull and the movie grinds to a halt.

-Mame and Vera discussing the show: pick up the pace! The script is not funny enough here and to make matters worse, space is left for laughs! Plus Mame has just lost Patrick and her mood shifts much too fast.

That's all for part one.

I know it sounds like I HATE the movie, but I'm leaving out all the things I think are wonderful and nitpicking the parts I feel damage the movie.

Maybe they should have replaced Saks with YOU? Did you like the Patrick in the Auntie Mame version with Roz Russell, he put the theater in theatrical and i despised HIM!

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

"Mame" RETAKES part ONE!!

 

Pre-record sessions: Don't worry so much about Lucy hitting the notes dead on. This interfered with a more free-wheeling interpretation she might have done as an actress.

FIRE the orchestrator. They're mostly terrible when they need to be exciting. And there doesn't seem to be any support for Lucy's singing voice. Proper orchestrations would have helped a lot.

Although she created some great stuff for Lucy, FIRE the costumer (AND hair/wig style creator--I assume this was NOT Irma) because some of her stuff is GHASTLY.

 

-"It's Today" number: re-score. Replace that vampy rhythm opening with the original Broadway 2/4. Arrange orchestrations and add background ("Oo-oo") singers to make Lucy sound as good as possible. Opening notes acapella: WHAT were you thinking?

-Post "It's Today" dialogue: meeting Patrick. Lucy's speaking voice is too rough. Loop it or re-shoot. Eliminate soft-focus close-ups. It's our introduction to Mame as a character and we HAVE to LOVE her. I think this was the point where critics made up their mind and nothing Lucy subsequent could change them. Lucy's "Oh my GAAWWWD!! I'm your AUNTIE MAME!!" was really the wrong reading of those lines. Her "GAAWWD" is so abrasive, it would have scared poor Patrick. This is the moment where she welcomes him with open arms, but Lucy comes off as gruff rather than loving. But playing off this Patrick as portrayed by Kirby Furlong, who could blame her? Patrick needs to be ADORABLE and elicit our sympathy; and this actor does neither which hurts the crux of the whole movie more than most people realize. The Broadway Patrick was so cute he got a Tony. I can't believe this kid is the best they could come up with. I feel bad beating Furlong up. He would have been fine in a more pedestrian movie, but "Mame" needs an actual ACTOR.

-Vera passing out. You can't blame the 'boys' for looking fearful when their job was to catch a dead-weight Bea Arthur, but either get a smaller stunt double or hire stronger chorus boys!!

-"It's Today" reprise...again with the acapella! see ABOVE.

-"Open a New Window"--for the most part this sequence is great. The morning scene with Patrick is Lucy at her finest. Her speaking voice is a whole lot sprier than in the party scenes. Her singing is greatly improved over "It's Today" (too late to redeem herself with the critics). The "Window" bridge ("If you follow your Auntie Mame...") features the first of many unflattering costumes and wigs (the close-cropped brown one). Lucy's "If you wake up every morning..." extreme close up really points this out. Her facial expression/mouthing of the word "these" is especially unflattering. Ending it with the orchestra overlapping Babcock ringing Mame's doorbell was a mistake.

-the usually bright John McGiver may have been a bad choice as Babcock, but he's given practically no lines in his car scene with Bea/Vera. He needs to be fleshed out a bit as Mame's adversary. As an actor, he looks like he doesn't want to be there. Mostly he just stares grumpily with a flat affect. He adds nothing to the "crash of '29" scene and the movie needs him to be engaging. He died a year later so may not have been well. The scenes between the end of "Window" and "The Man in the Moon" performance are dull, dull, dull and the movie grinds to a halt.

-Mame and Vera discussing the show: pick up the pace! The script is not funny enough here and to make matters worse, space is left for laughs! Plus Mame has just lost Patrick and her mood shifts much too fast.

That's all for part one.

I know it sounds like I HATE the movie, but I'm leaving out all the things I think are wonderful and nitpicking the parts I feel damage the movie.

YOU ARE CORRECT... I have always felt she should have said.... "Every one knows 30 days has September, April, June and Novem vem vem...UUH-OH MY GAAWWDD... I'm your Auntie Mame.." and all other parts you pointed out are spot on.. just needed someome to articulate for me!! Tell me more Tell me more!

[Neil]

-"My Best Girl" really needs that modulation up a tone when they sing "And if someday..." for the 2nd time.

-The whole repossession montage is not entertaining enough. The "But I bought this at the Paris exposition/Sorry, lady" exchange seems like wasted dialogue. Mame trying to cover up an art object so the repossessers don't see it might have been funny (and a chance to do some Lucille Ball schtick), but it's so poorly directed I wasn't aware that was what was happening until I had seen it several times.

-The only think I don't like about the department store scene is Lucy's hair and outfit and ONE line reading: I don't like her hand gestures for "all that moss".

-The prelude to "Christmas" was the chance for some pathos but the scene doesn't play well. And one thing doesn't make much sense. Ito and Agnes have paid "the butcher bill through the first of September"(BEFORE the Oct. 29th crash--how much meat are those people eating?). It's December so this doesn't do much for their financial woes.

-I would have gotten rid of the Santa mask Lucy wears during the song.

-Lucy's "Christmas" vocals sound pretty good, but there are a couple of phrases that could have been improved, particularly "Climb down the chimney.."

 

To reiterate, yes I do love the movie.

[C L A U D E]

-"My Best Girl" really needs that modulation up a tone when they sing "And if someday..." for the 2nd time.

-The whole repossession montage is not entertaining enough. The "But I bought this at the Paris exposition/Sorry, lady" exchange seems like wasted dialogue. Mame trying to cover up an art object so the repossessers don't see it might have been funny (and a chance to do some Lucille Ball schtick), but it's so poorly directed I wasn't aware that was what was happening until I had seen it several times.

-The only think I don't like about the department store scene is Lucy's hair and outfit and ONE line reading: I don't like her hand gestures for "all that moss".

-The prelude to "Christmas" was the chance for some pathos but the scene doesn't play well. And one thing doesn't make much sense. Ito and Agnes have paid "the butcher bill through the first of September"(BEFORE the Oct. 29th crash--how much meat are those people eating?). It's December so this doesn't do much for their financial woes.

-I would have gotten rid of the Santa mask Lucy wears during the song.

-Lucy's "Christmas" vocals sound pretty good, but there are a couple of phrases that could have been improved, particularly "Climb down the chimney.."

 

To reiterate, yes I do love the movie.

It's a shame you haven't found the time to analyze much of this movie, LOL! Did you this for the entire film? I agree about the Santa mask, but maybe that';s the way they were BACK THEN, God knows the Christmas decorations were of that time period. I recently bought a Christmas display ornament at Hallmark that was half off because it's July and the song playing is the same as in the movie, WE NEED A LITTLE CHRISTMAS . . .

[JoeySanJoaquin]

 

-I would have gotten rid of the Santa mask Lucy wears during the song.

 

 

To reiterate, yes I do love the movie.

Yes...but it IS fun to watch her gingerly peel it off her face without ruining Irma's strap job!!

[C L A U D E]

Yes...but it IS fun to watch her gingerly peel it off her face without ruining Irma's strap job!!

I think Irma's STRAP contraption was being run by a CRANE backstage at that point in her life. It took three unionized construction workers to work the pulleys on it.

[Neil]

The ensuing scenes in the South play fine brightened by Joyce Van Patten as Sally Cato and the "Mame" number. I have (continuing) problems with the muzac-like orchestrations and the pace of the "Mame" music is way too slow (listen to the Broadway version to hear the difference).

It's after this that the crux of the movie gets sidetracked. We have to assume Mame has had nothing to do with Patrick's upbringing all this time...and there's no reference to Patrick being gradually entice into the land of snobbery Mame taught him to avoid.

When Beau dies, Lucy's stuck with two horrible outfits (and hats) right in a row. Her "mourning" dress and that "Bosom Buddies" outfit that one critic compared to an overstuffed chair. Love her Lucy Ricardo-like "BB" hair, though. The screenwriter chose to eliminate the plot device of Mame writing her autobiography with I think was a BIG mistake. Without it (and the Lindsay Woolsy character), the film just meanders around until the Upson scene--deadly this far into the movie. Mame's plan to tell her story is the intro for the "BB" song, which here just comes out of nowhere. Also the Upson's reaction to Patrick's life as portrayed in the book is a superb way of showing Patrick how uppity the Upsons are because they frown on the people he has loved.

Gloria comes across as vapid but not super-snooty like she should. Doria Cook's portrayal is deeper when we really need a cartoon-y character to hate. We should have no sympathy for her and you find yourself feeling sorry for Gloria because Mame is rude to her before we see the Upson clan in action.

The inspiration for and the transformation of Gooch is also unmotivated here. It's another scene that just doesn't jell. Plus Lucy's "Life is a banquet!...." speech is hollow.

"Gooch's Song" has been hailed as one of the great comic numbers of all musicals, but why does it fall so flat here? First off, Jane Connell's Gooch hasn't been a prominent enough character to have a long song all to herself---and we just don't care about the character. Even adult-Patrick treats her like crap!

I like Lucy's hair and look, but her reaction shots during "Gooch's" are one time where the soft-focus did bother me.

The Upson scene plays well for the most part but its humor is mostly in subtleties when it should be broader. I've heard a CD of Lansbury's "Mame" and the audience is HOWLING. For the payoff to have the effect it should, the Upsons need to be meaner than they are.

I don't like many of Bruce's or Lucy's line readings in their confrontational scene. Since we haven't seen Patrick descend into snobbery (and Mame hasn't been around anyway), her indignation doesn't seem justified. Patrick actually has a point!

[C L A U D E]

The ensuing scenes in the South play fine brightened by Joyce Van Patten as Sally Cato and the "Mame" number. I have (continuing) problems with the muzac-like orchestrations and the pace of the "Mame" music is way too slow (listen to the Broadway version to hear the difference).

It's after this that the crux of the movie gets sidetracked. We have to assume Mame has had nothing to do with Patrick's upbringing all this time...and there's no reference to Patrick being gradually entice into the land of snobbery Mame taught him to avoid.

When Beau dies, Lucy's stuck with two horrible outfits (and hats) right in a row. Her "mourning" dress and that "Bosom Buddies" outfit that one critic compared to an overstuffed chair. Love her Lucy Ricardo-like "BB" hair, though. The screenwriter chose to eliminate the plot device of Mame writing her autobiography with I think was a BIG mistake. Without it (and the Lindsay Woolsy character), the film just meanders around until the Upson scene--deadly this far into the movie. Mame's plan to tell her story is the intro for the "BB" song, which here just comes out of nowhere. Also the Upson's reaction to Patrick's life as portrayed in the book is a superb way of showing Patrick how uppity the Upsons are because they frown on the people he has loved.

Gloria comes across as vapid but not super-snooty like she should. Doria Cook's portrayal is deeper when we really need a cartoon-y character to hate. We should have no sympathy for her and you find yourself feeling sorry for Gloria because Mame is rude to her before we see the Upson clan in action.

The inspiration for and the transformation of Gooch is also unmotivated here. It's another scene that just doesn't jell. Plus Lucy's "Life is a banquet!...." speech is hollow.

"Gooch's Song" has been hailed as one of the great comic numbers of all musicals, but why does it fall so flat here? First off, Jane Connell's Gooch hasn't been a prominent enough character to have a long song all to herself---and we just don't care about the character. Even adult-Patrick treats her like crap!

I like Lucy's hair and look, but her reaction shots during "Gooch's" are one time where the soft-focus did bother me.

The Upson scene plays well for the most part but its humor is mostly in subtleties when it should be broader. I've heard a CD of Lansbury's "Mame" and the audience is HOWLING. For the payoff to have the effect it should, the Upsons need to be meaner than they are.

I don't like many of Bruce's or Lucy's line readings in their confrontational scene. Since we haven't seen Patrick descend into snobbery (and Mame hasn't been around anyway), her indignation doesn't seem justified. Patrick actually has a point!

BUT, you still maintain you LOVE the film and Lucy in it huh?

[Neil]

BUT, you still maintain you LOVE the film and Lucy in it huh?

 

For the most part, yes, but watching "Mame" is still frustrating because it could have been SO much better...and a movie that would have garnered the acclaim Lucy wanted. I remember Rona Barrett (who seemed to be in Lucy's corner with many positive "Mame" articles in her Rona Barrett's Hollywood magazine) said right before the movie was released that there was talk of Lucy getting an Oscar nomination.

[C L A U D E]

For the most part, yes, but watching "Mame" is still frustrating because it could have been SO much better...and a movie that would have garnered the acclaim Lucy wanted. I remember Rona Barrett (who seemed to be in Lucy's corner with many positive "Mame" articles in her Rona Barrett's Hollywood magazine) said right before the movie was released that there was talk of Lucy getting an Oscar nomination.

And of course she WOULD have, if only George Cukor had been the director, but Lucy broke her leg and lost an Oscar nod in the process.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

Yeah it really gets me that Lucille gets the flack for Mame missing the mark.. she didn't write it, she didn't direct it, she didn't film it, she didn't play an instrument in the OARE KHES TRA... and everyone knows how a good director and great writting brings a great actress up to a fine tempo... That movie could have and should have been a career topper !!!! I would like to say what bugges me about the movie.. I don't like the line "I never expected Santa to look so much like Rhett Butler" That's pretty good for Santa to look like a movie character in a movie not yet released (since we are in depression era Beekman Place, NYC and GWTW comes out in 1939)... I don't like the fat naked guy at the piano in the GARDEN of EDEN ... I don't like the moustache on BERTHA.... being one in a million who doesn't know about NAIR ... I don't mind Gooch's song, I just wonder how drunk HE was to get her in THAT condition... I wish we could've spent a bit more time in the south first namin each other.... and whatz with the BIG BOOBED gold shimmery dress Mame wears in that synagog??? I mean.. why is she MORE than I expected in that shot?? I didn't used to like what I called THE SEA SHELL dress Mame wears when she desends the stair case promising not to use one tinsy winsy sonofabitch all evening.. but now I kinda like it.. and I also would have liked more character developement all around.. and if they blame LUCY in the Jerry Herman book about Mame being a flat soda.. then shame on them.. they need to take responsibity too.. If Mame was a smashing, rollicking sucess.. would they give Miss Ball all of the credit in the bio???

[C L A U D E]

Yeah it really gets me that Lucille gets the flack for Mame missing the mark.. she didn't write it, she didn't direct it, she didn't film it, she didn't play an instrument in the OARE KHES TRA... and everyone knows how a good director and great writting brings a great actress up to a fine tempo... That movie could have and should have been a career topper !!!! I would like to say what bugges me about the movie.. I don't like the line "I never expected Santa to look so much like Rhett Butler" That's pretty good for Santa to look like a movie character in a movie not yet released (since we are in depression era Beekman Place, NYC and GWTW comes out in 1939)... I don't like the fat naked guy at the piano in the GARDEN of EDEN ... I don't like the moustache on BERTHA.... being one in a million who doesn't know about NAIR ... I don't mind Gooch's song, I just wonder how drunk HE was to get her in THAT condition... I wish we could've spent a bit more time in the south first namin each other.... and whatz with the BIG BOOBED gold shimmery dress Mame wears in that synagog??? I mean.. why is she MORE than I expected in that shot?? I didn't used to like what I called THE SEA SHELL dress Mame wears when she desends the stair case promising not to use one tinsy winsy sonofabitch all evening.. but now I kinda like it.. and I also would have liked more character developement all around.. and if they blame LUCY in the Jerry Herman book about Mame being a flat soda.. then shame on them.. they need to take responsibity too.. If Mame was a smashing, rollicking sucess.. would they give Miss Ball all of the credit in the bio???

Beautifully said. I kind of grew to like that dress too. GWTW came out as a BOOK long before it was a movie so she could have been describing him from having read the book.

[Neil]

I remember the Rhetta Butler anachronism came up in more than one review when the critics were really nitpicking, but that line is in Angela's broadway version too. I remember another critic saying "some of the lyrics smack of blatant lesbianism" (!!) referring to "I'll always be Alice Toklas if you'll be Gertrude Stein". I don't remember the gold synagogue dress looking bad and I always liked the "sea shell" dress. And although it would have been out of place, having Lucy try to sit down in the thing might have been a good bit (ala "country club dance" dress). In my detailed tirade about the things that bug me about "Mame", I didn't get to this scene: the party for the Upsons at Beekman place, but it's perhaps the worst directed scene of the whole movie. I love Vera's entrance "Today" reprise, but then her boys just sort of stand around as everybody does. Reciting lines very listlessly when they should be picking up the pace. It's supposed to be the climax of the whole movie and it falls so flat. I lay this problem all on Gene Saks, because everyone's performance (especially Lucy's) is fine. This is SUPPOSED to be the moment where Patrick realizes Mame is right, but the movie doesn't play it that way. Gloria hasn't shown us she's enough like her parents for us to hate her....and she really hasn't given Mame reason enough to treat her so rudely. The scene ends with Patrick staring daggers at her (and rightly so). As I stated earlier the plotline that holds the 2nd act together (Mame writing her autobiography) has been cut and this scene really needs it, because it's Patrick and Mame talking about the things that has happened to them (arrested in speakeasy, for example) that outrages Gloria. Her looking down on Patrick's life is the catalyst for Patrick's wake-up call.

And is there any reason to make Pegeen such a calculatedly-cute wee Irish lass?? Honestly! After she says that thing about her grandmother, I want to throw a snowball at her and say "Oh, YOU and your SICKENING SWEETNESS!"

I never noticed Bertha's mustache, but maybe like Harry when he was going to impersonate Mrs. Dan Dailey she "forgot to shave it off". Mame treats Bertha a little dismissively saying "hello Bertha" without even looking at her, when her character would have treated her as an equal.

[Neil]

In the original Rosalind Russell verson, Gooch is two different characters: Patrick's nanny Nora and Gooch who's the stenographer hired to help Mame write her book. It's Mame's collaborator, a handsome writer named O'Banyon that Mame sends Gooch to the party with and impregnates her. This character is also eliminated from the Angela Broadway version. I think not having his character leaves a hole in the plot. He has the hots for Mame and him chasing Lucy around would have been fun. Also Mame has to talk him into taking Gooch to the party. Here it's very unclear where she's sending Gooch all dolled up (an orgy?) and exactly what she's been doing for 9 months. Mame doesn't seem all that concerned and there's NO connection between adult Patrick and Gooch, who in this version was his beloved childhood nanny. There's not one pleasant exchange between adult Patrick and Gooch. Also missing from the movie version is Babcock popping up along the way. When the Upson's rush out of the party, Mame has a confrontation with Babcock that spells out what the movie is all about.

But here's an idea that I just thought of!! Since we don't have O'Banyon, Mame could have sent Gooch to the 'party' with Babcock and HE'S the one who gets her pregnant, revealing his hypocracy. (A child by John mcGiver and Jane Connell: what a horrible thought.) Mame has invited people from Patrick's past to the Upson party in an effort to show him what uppity snobs the Upsons are. All that has been cut to the detriment of the movie. I remember one reviewer who liked the movie OK but made a couple of apropos statements: "This version tells the Auntie Mame story with considerable stuffing knocked out of it" and "A lot of the effectiveness of what's going on depends on your memory of the original." (and I'm paraphrasing from memory).

[C L A U D E]

I never noticed Bertha's mustache, but maybe like Harry when he was going to impersonate Mrs. Dan Dailey she "forgot to shave it off". Mame treats Bertha a little dismissively saying "hello Bertha" without even looking at her, when her character would have treated her as an equal.

Agree totally, thought the exact same thing.