Luvsbway Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'll way in later but for now I'm going to post this then duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Well I have to respect people who think Angela should have gotten the part AND the people who don't like the movie. It's hard to argue with the sheer numbers. I DO have to take exception to his points. Lucy's phrasing and movements in Its' Today are fine. The song is in a different tempo. And as far as "If He Walked....", those are NOT vacant stares. They're very expressive and convey exactly what the song is saying. That's REAL acting. In fact this song is probably the best arranged and shot of the film (with the exception of the title tune). Lucy looks so great. And what's wrong with her reaction to the Bosom Buddies insult? The facial expressions are subtle and anyway your focus is actually on Bea who's doing the singing. This is the movies. Angela's reaction was a bit too broad, I think. Worked on stage, but wouldn't have in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm still puzzled by what sort of "specificity in her motions" Angela is going for in busting out a Groucho Marx impersonation not once, but twice in the middle of It's Today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvsbway Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I think the main problem with his analysis is he is comparing a stage show to a movie. You can’t be broad in movies, it would look ridiculous. I also think he faults Lucy too much for things that are more of a directorial choice and chorography choice. Of course she can’t do the movement in It’s today the way Angela can because the frame is too tight. It would look stupid. In Bossom Buddies Lucy’s reaction is fine. In fact it’s a reaction I’ve seen her give many times so it is a choice on her part. That’s her look for that type of situation, and as Neil points out you don’t want to pull focus from Bea. The reviewer compares it to a solo performance of the song from the Tony’s in front of a curtain. 2 completely different venues. And how did Angela do it in the show? If He…Today is one of my favorite moments too. I’ll probably get hit for this but I prefer the vocals of Angela in this song. Play Angela singing over Lucy’s acting and that would be perfection. The acting of Lucy makes it one of my favorite parts. Vacant stares??? What the hell is she supposed to do? Does he not see the emotion in what he is calling stares? Maybe he can’t get through the fuzzy lens to see that she really conveys a lot of emotion with her eyes. Again this is partly not Lucy’s fault. The director decides how he is going to shoot it and how it should be played. She just needs to bring the emotion and in this case in a smaller way than on stage. Clearly the reviewer favors Angela so he is going to have his comments persuade us to like her more too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Comments censored by postee. As I reach for my blood pressure medicine. Amazing that no shit left his mouth as he is so friggin FULL OF IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiluforever Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Clearly the reviewer favors Angela so he is going to have his comments persuade us to like her more too. Exactly... I don't think you could get a positive note about Lucy from this guy no matter how hard you tried. And I think you are completely correct about the fact that you simply cannot compare a stage version to a film version. As you said, you have to be LARGE in all senses - action, reaction, etc. - on stage to convey your emotions to the audience. But in film, they can see you up close- look into your eyes and see what you are feeling. You simply cannot do such dramatic reactions as Lansbury did on stage. For example, that reaction in "If He Walked into my Life" on stage was very large, you could feel what she was feeling without looking into her eyes and seeing her up close. Lucy didn't have to do that - we can feel her feelings just by looking into her eyes. And yes, those vacant stares, are part of us feeling those emotions. I am mad about his criticism in Bosom Buddies.... as Neil said, I see nothing wrong. It is one of my favorite numbers. This guy is one tough critic. He truly is nitpicking Lucy's performance in every possible way. "It's Today" is definitely not one of my favorite numbers, I think the timing is off, and I prefer Angela's version in this case. However, I still think Lucy did a good job (especially for her) vocally, and her performance as a whole was still very good. I don't care what this guy says, I think Mame is amazing- both Angela's version AND Lucy's version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 I only found one line that he said that was true, EVEN IF ANGELA HAD DONE IT, IT MIGHT STILL HAVE NOT BEEN A SUCCESS. It was not a good time for musicals, even Dolly bombed with Streisand. It was overblown and unfunny and Lucy fans wanted their Lucy funny. And the direction was for shit. You are all correct, Lucy again made caviar out of bologna and she was great in it, for that asshole's information, some reviews were very good. It's bad reputation over the decades is thanks to jerks like him who don't know their ass from their elbow, yet write reviews or critiques, but have very little knowledge of the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Plus I think this guy is too much of a smarty-pants (although his presentation is well put-together visually) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Having watched some of the musical numbers again this morning, I'm more and more convinced that Gene Saks went out of his way to sink this battleship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Now you see, that's what I've said from the beginning. Perfect example is the shot of her at the top of the stairs waiting for him to give her the go ahead to come down, so badly directed and cut or edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 There are two big clunkers in the opening number alone -- where Mame is on the top of the staircase and her outstretched arms completely block out a chorus girl, and when you see Alice Nunn scurrying across the front of the frame because she's not in her position and blocking the shot. Then in "We Need A Little Christmas", the very awkward dash Lucy has to do to avoid the coffee table in the way, and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Even the glass that Mame drinks when doing the It's Today number is a fake glass where there's liquid in it but you can't access it as it's IN the glass covered in glass, we had one of those when I was a kid, so Lucy's drinking from it looks so fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Kampen Tripp Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I wouldn't call it staring into space... She is contemplating where she ran off the tracks with this kid.. and it shows in her voice how upset she is.. jeezuss!!! Leave Lucille alone.. she really did a credible job.. it's the direction and editing that ran Mame into the ditch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 And the fact that it was a big overblown musical when people were not going to see those types of films anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Baxter Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Interesting. Whereas many of the film's shortcomings are very much attributable to direction and cinematography, I can't help but agree that Lucy just wasn't right for the part. Much as I adore Miss Ball, she doesn't display the pizzaz and urbane humor of Russell or the glamorous and witty acting choices of Lansbury. Never would I blame Lucy, but surely the entire motion picture production needs to renamed Maim. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mot Morenzi Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I definitely agree that the biggest problem with the film is the direction and editing, but he did make some very astute points. Yes, comparing a stage performance to a film performance may not be entirely wise, but you can't deny he put a lot of thought into his analysis. Lucille Ball is not above reproach; as a performer she is just as open to critique as any other. However, the review may have benefited from pointing out how she was clearly misdirected in some of these scenes he showcased. Nonetheless, a great video. And not nearly as mean spirited as some critics tend to be nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mot Morenzi Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Comments censored by postee. As I reach for my blood pressure medicine. Amazing that no shit left his mouth as he is so friggin FULL OF IT! I'd forgotten how fun it is to piss you off. You could give purple faced Darren Stephens a run for his money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Baxter Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'd forgotten how fun it is to piss you off. You could give purple faced Darren Stephens a run for his money! Wicked Lotus Bud! Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'd forgotten how fun it is to piss you off. You could give purple faced Darren Stephens a run for his money! Well, i'm glad YOU get something out of it, my heart, aorta and clogged arteries beg to differ though, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I will have to re-view your clunker examples. I always thought Alice (or "Fat Lady"as she is billed. Couldn't they have called her "Party Guest with Dog"?) scurrying was planned to make the party action seem more naturalized. Don't remember any awkwardness in "Christmas", except the mask being a little creepy There are two big clunkers in the opening number alone -- where Mame is on the top of the staircase and her outstretched arms completely block out a chorus girl, and when you see Alice Nunn scurrying across the front of the frame because she's not in her position and blocking the shot. Then in "We Need A Little Christmas", the very awkward dash Lucy has to do to avoid the coffee table in the way, and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 "Christmas", except the mask being a little creepy I know, noticed that too, what an ugly mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Kampen Tripp Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I dunno... I kinda like that Santa Mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeySanJoaquin Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I dunno... I kinda like that Santa Mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie2 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 The Santa mask thing always reminds me of a certain moment from Silence of The Lambs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeySanJoaquin Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 The Santa mask thing always reminds me of a certain moment from Silence of The Lambs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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