What if..

[C L A U D E]

This is perfect. They ran out of ideas in that story line.

EXACTLY!

[C L A U D E]

It really does take some reading. But anytime a person asks about it I give them the jist of it. The faults on both sides and the fact they stayed in love for the rest of their lives.

 

My favorite is when people say Lucy and Desi hated each other. Excuse me? Where the hell did you get that information?

Lucy had no faults, she was perfect, as for her TIT for TAT situation, she just was an equal opportunity *ucker, what she got is what she gave, LOL!  Why is it ok for a man but not a woman?????  EQUAL RIGHTS, EQUAL RIGHTS, EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!!

[C L A U D E]

Well said! And had she stayed, they certainly could have written the LA move into the script for both of them, even if they did end up dumping the kids anyways (although I always wished they'd kept Jimmy recurring, even if they didn't use him in every episode!)

 

If Laverne & Shirley could move from Milwaukee to Burbank.........

They said NO to Viv's demands that she be considered EQUAL to Lucy, which she was not.  Broke Lucy's heart to see her go, her next co workers or cast mates knew their place and did very well.  Nobody watched Mary Tyler Moore for the secondary characters either you know.  That's what they needed to do with Lucy as she got older, surround her with GREAT co stars, took them years to realize that. 

[desilufan2]

What if when Lucy was given the choice around 1956 either to get bigger with the studio or rest on what they had achieved, semi-retire and spend more time with the kids, would the marriage have lasted longer?

 

I think it would have but not a lot longer.  For a time they may have had the life they wanted in the 40’s but with 2 kids this time.  Maybe they would get more work together as they proved they are a good team.  Lucy would still work a lot but maybe with as not much pressure on her.  Without the studio pressure, show pressure and generally the major stress I don’t think Desi’s drinking would have gotten so bad and his health would have been better.  But then you think of all the problems they had all along in the marriage before the show or the kids came along and I don’t think there was any way they would have been able to fix those. 

 

What if just Lucy and Desi went on the Europe trip in 59’ and left everyone else at home, would they have saved the marriage.  I think it was so over at that point there was no saving it.  I do think they should have just gone together.  It maybe would have drawn them a little closer away from all the pressures back in Hollywood.  It could also ended up the same way with the constant fighting and drinking that did occur.  I think overall it may have only stretched it out a little longer.  Neither seemed to want to really make a full commitment to solving all the difficulty they had. 

 

 I have often wondered the same thing about both that 1956 decision and the European trip. Frankly we could all go over many "what if" wishing there may have been a way to save the marriage. But I just don't think it could have gone on. They were both so stubborn and often so unwilling to delve into their inner demons. Its just sad. So very very sad. They had so much going for them and so much history between them that would be forever meaningful to both of them. And they were a great team. Its to bad it couldn't last forever because it really was special.

[Annaleigh]

O M G you are so wrong about that. I, being an avid fan of The Lucy show knew that opening up the show to the Hollywood ones would make it bigger, Lucy did not need anyone else, not those kids, not even Viv. ALTHOUGH she needed a foil, a father authority type figure, but I would have preferred an Ann Sothern or Audrey Meadows, a great friend who could never be her equal but at least lend some STAR power to the show. AND someone to offset mean Mr Mooney.

I'm not saying the show wasnt great in California, I was just stating that Viv wasn't the reason the show was failing. The plot in Danfield was. I was simply saying, let's say Viv went to California with Lucy. The show would have been just as wonderful! But I agree, Lucy held herself on her own and did remarkable.

[C L A U D E]

I'm not saying the show wasnt great in California, I was just stating that Viv wasn't the reason the show was failing. The plot in Danfield was. I was simply saying, let's say Viv went to California with Lucy. The show would have been just as wonderful! But I agree, Lucy held herself on her own and did remarkable.

Sorry about my comments but that's a sore point with me.  And the ratings were never BAD.  If Viv had been Lucy's equal, wouldn't Desi have hired her for Mothers in Law, thing is Viv never did anything as popular as when she co starred with the Queen of Comedy.  And besides, at the end of ILL and during the run of The Lucy Show's first three years, they made Viv's character so bitchy sometimes, not like a best friend really would be.  But when she came back as a guest star, she was so much better with that warmth showing between them, well, except for the time she tried to take her job, LOL!

[Annaleigh]

Sorry about my comments but that's a sore point with me. And the ratings were never BAD. If Viv had been Lucy's equal, wouldn't Desi have hired her for Mothers in Law, thing is Viv never did anything as popular as when she co starred with the Queen of Comedy. And besides, at the end of ILL and during the run of The Lucy Show's first three years, they made Viv's character so bitchy sometimes, not like a best friend really would be. But when she came back as a guest star, she was so much better with that warmth showing between them, well, except for the time she tried to take her job, LOL!

Well, it was a wonderful move to go to California and Lucy did wonderfully on her own. But people hint that it was Viv's fault that the ratings dropped like cmon seriously? No. It was the plot lines.

[C L A U D E]

Well, it was a wonderful move to go to California and Lucy did wonderfully on her own. But people hint that it was Viv's fault that the ratings dropped like cmon seriously? No. It was the plot lines.

I personally have always said they improved dramatically after Viv left but never blamed her for the failure or rather lower ratings before she did.  But it was called The LUCY show, not the Lucy and Viv show.  Even though some snarky stinkers did call it the Dyke sans Dick show because it was two women living together.

[Annaleigh]

I personally have always said they improved dramatically after Viv left but never blamed her for the failure or rather lower ratings before she did. But it was called The LUCY show, not the Lucy and Viv show. Even though some snarky stinkers did call it the Dyke sans Dick show because it was two women living together.

The title of her first sitcom is I Love Lucy so basically it should be just about Ricky and Lucy. So should we get rid of Fred and Ethel too?

 

I also prefer the Danfield episodes over California.

[Brock]

ALTHOUGH she needed a foil, a father authority type figure, but I would have preferred an Ann Sothern or Audrey Meadows...

 

Come now. Audrey's voice was deep, but it wasn't that deep!

[C L A U D E]

Come now. Audrey's voice was deep, but it wasn't that deep!

Funny, but I was talking about the great Gale Gordon, and then went to a suitable replacement for Viv without reading my post properly, sorry.

[Lucyilove]

Perfect. The answer would have to depend on who the man was.

 

What if she stayed unmarried for the rest of her life? The decisions would've been made more wisely I believe.

 

And my favorite.

What if Lucy and Desi stayed together? How would her career and TV shows been different?

 

Lucy was the type of woman who they call "born married".  Notice how soon she married Gary after meeting him and after the divorce.

 

A single Lucy in her middle age and beyond would have been a VERY unhappy and lonely woman.  I think if anything she would have been vulnerable to leeches who could have destroyed her fortune and her career.   

 

What if Lucy and Desi had stayed together?  She would have been DESPERATELY unhappy.  What part of  "miserable last years of marriage", "crying all day" can't people understand?  If Lucy had "toughened it out" I could easily see her turning to booze just as much as Desi to escape, maybe even being suicidal at one point. 

 

I adore Desi as a comedian and tv personality, and yeah in his youth he was damn sexy  but sorry he was a complete shit as a husband, bedding anything in a skirt.  I'm kind of tired of the Lucy and Desi were soulmates/meant to be fantasy some fans cling to but it's a total illusion.  I'm grateful they did stick it out to have maybe 15 years or so of happiness together and I'm thrilled their union gave us the greatest sitcom of alltime but it was time to throw in the towel and kudos to Lucy for having the strength and courage to do it!!!!

 

I know people don't like Gary Morton for a variety of reasons but Lucy loved him and was happy with him and that's all I care about.  Her was her best husband and just maybe the best husband a woman in her position could have had - one only has to look at the private lives of her contemporaries, most of whom were either alone after 50 or had messy relationships.  Lucy got the nice bland middle-class husband she wanted with Gary.  I would rather have a happy Lucy in her later years with a mediocre career (which she certainly DID NOT have)  than a woman alone or unhappy with a truckload of Oscars and Emmys. 

[C L A U D E]

 

 

A single Lucy in her middle age and beyond would have been a VERY unhappy and lonely woman.  I think if anything she would have been vulnerable to leeches who could have destroyed her fortune and her career.   AND GARY DID THE BEST HE COULD IN THAT DEPARTMENT.  After a strong Desi, she wanted a husband she could dominate in every way, and she succeeded at that perfectly.  Someone who would say yes to everything she wanted and accept the fact that as bad as Desi could be, he could never top him in any way.

[Annaleigh]

Lucy was the type of woman who they call "born married". Notice how soon she married Gary after meeting him and after the divorce.

 

A single Lucy in her middle age and beyond would have been a VERY unhappy and lonely woman. I think if anything she would have been vulnerable to leeches who could have destroyed her fortune and her career.

 

What if Lucy and Desi had stayed together? She would have been DESPERATELY unhappy. What part of "miserable last years of marriage", "crying all day" can't people understand? If Lucy had "toughened it out" I could easily see her turning to booze just as much as Desi to escape, maybe even being suicidal at one point.

 

I adore Desi as a comedian and tv personality, and yeah in his youth he was damn sexy but sorry he was a complete shit as a husband, bedding anything in a skirt. I'm kind of tired of the Lucy and Desi were soulmates/meant to be fantasy some fans cling to but it's a total illusion. I'm grateful they did stick it out to have maybe 15 years or so of happiness together and I'm thrilled their union gave us the greatest sitcom of alltime but it was time to throw in the towel and kudos to Lucy for having the strength and courage to do it!!!!

 

I know people don't like Gary Morton for a variety of reasons but Lucy loved him and was happy with him and that's all I care about. Her was her best husband and just maybe the best husband a woman in her position could have had - one only has to look at the private lives of her contemporaries, most of whom were either alone after 50 or had messy relationships. Lucy got the nice bland middle-class husband she wanted with Gary. I would rather have a happy Lucy in her later years with a mediocre career (which she certainly DID NOT have) than a woman alone or unhappy with a truckload of Oscars and Emmys.

These are just different possibilities. Lucy couldn't be alone, we all know that. But I'm saying what if she never married. Would her career be different? Bad or good.

 

The what if Lucy and Desi stayed together goes together with if they worked everything out. If Desi and Lucy compromised, Lucy would stop working so hard and he would stop womanizing. Once again, I asked how would her career have been affected. We all know the facts of the miserable end of their marriage, we aren't blind to it.

 

In reality we all know there is no way in hell they could've stayed together because they were both stubborn. This thread is just about random thoughts and what if's we have thought of. Not our fantasies of her life.

[Annaleigh]

Lucy was the type of woman who they call "born married". Notice how soon she married Gary after meeting him and after the divorce.

 

A single Lucy in her middle age and beyond would have been a VERY unhappy and lonely woman. I think if anything she would have been vulnerable to leeches who could have destroyed her fortune and her career.

 

What if Lucy and Desi had stayed together? She would have been DESPERATELY unhappy. What part of "miserable last years of marriage", "crying all day" can't people understand? If Lucy had "toughened it out" I could easily see her turning to booze just as much as Desi to escape, maybe even being suicidal at one point.

 

I adore Desi as a comedian and tv personality, and yeah in his youth he was damn sexy but sorry he was a complete shit as a husband, bedding anything in a skirt. I'm kind of tired of the Lucy and Desi were soulmates/meant to be fantasy some fans cling to but it's a total illusion. I'm grateful they did stick it out to have maybe 15 years or so of happiness together and I'm thrilled their union gave us the greatest sitcom of alltime but it was time to throw in the towel and kudos to Lucy for having the strength and courage to do it!!!!

 

I know people don't like Gary Morton for a variety of reasons but Lucy loved him and was happy with him and that's all I care about. Her was her best husband and just maybe the best husband a woman in her position could have had - one only has to look at the private lives of her contemporaries, most of whom were either alone after 50 or had messy relationships. Lucy got the nice bland middle-class husband she wanted with Gary. I would rather have a happy Lucy in her later years with a mediocre career (which she certainly DID NOT have) than a woman alone or unhappy with a truckload of Oscars and Emmys.

And do you honestly think I am this uneducated on Lucy's life?

 

The main reason I look up to her is because of her strength. One of the greatest examples of her strength was her trying to make this marriage work and dealing with it all and more importantly being able to stand up and divorce Desi. I also believe they were meant for each other, but they couldn't be together. I don't think there is anything wrong with believing that.

 

Also with Gary, you hit everything right on the head. It's what she needed at the time. A companion and a hand to hold. He may have been her best husband but not the greatest love.

 

I never said I wanted her to be single or she was better off single. Lucy was always better with someone by her side. It was just a question to see what other people think.

[Lucyilove]

These are just different possibilities. Lucy couldn't be alone, we all know that. But I'm saying what if she never married. Would her career be different? Bad or good.

 

The what if Lucy and Desi stayed together goes together with if they worked everything out. If Desi and Lucy compromised, Lucy would stop working so hard and he would stop womanizing. Once again, I asked how would her career have been affected. We all know the facts of the miserable end of their marriage, we aren't blind to it.

 

In reality we all know there is no way in hell they could've stayed together because they were both stubborn. This thread is just about random thoughts and what if's we have thought of. Not our fantasies of her life.

 

Well her career would have been "bad" because she would have spent too much time on finding husband number two -which might not have happened, Ann Sothern, Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck, Joan Crawford, Vivien Leigh, Rita Hayworth, Ava Gardner, et al never married again after 1960 and most of them were alone in the last decade or two of their lives like the majority of newly single middle-aged women of that era and probably even today.

 

What are you talking about though "Lucy worked too hard" - when did she ever work without Desi in the last nine years of the marriage (maybe THE FACTS OF LIFE, I don't know if filming began before the divorce).  

 

If anything, the public might have tired of "Lucy and Desi" in the early 1960s and I suspect that would have happened.  What tv stars of the 1950's where still going great guns in the 1960s?   Mainly those who changed some, like Jackie Gleason. The Lucy Show, a Lucy without Desi,  let Lucy "change" and yet still be Lucy, the best of both worlds. 

 

I don't see how Lucy could have remotely been a bigger tv star in the 1960s than she was. Even though The Lucy Show never hit #1 there was no question she was still tv's queen even when being outrated in Nielsens by The Beverly Hillbillies or Bewitched, losing Emmys to Mary Tyler Moore or having a new huge star like Carol Burnett come along.

 

What movies could she have possibly done in the 1960s or 1970s?  WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE? THE LION IN WINTER? There wasn't much pickings for an actress over 50 back then and if she somehow had become a major Broadway star in the 1960s the nation at large wouldn't have cared much about it,  Carol Channing couldn't quite translate Broadway stardom to Hollywood and Angela Lansbury really didn't have that great of a movie career in the MAME/SWEENEY TODD era.

[C L A U D E]

Well her career would have been "bad" because she would have spent too much time on finding husband number two -which might not have happened, Ann Sothern, Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck, Joan Crawford, Vivien Leigh, Rita Hayworth, Ava Gardner, et al never married again after 1960 and most of them were alone in the last decade or two of their lives like the majority of newly single middle-aged women of that era and probably even today.

 

What are you talking about though "Lucy worked too hard" - when did she ever work without Desi in the last nine years of the marriage (maybe THE FACTS OF LIFE, I don't know if filming began before the divorce).  

 

If anything, the public might have tired of "Lucy and Desi" in the early 1960s and I suspect that would have happened.  What tv stars of the 1950's where still going great guns in the 1960s?   Mainly those who changed some, like Jackie Gleason. The Lucy Show, a Lucy without Desi,  let Lucy "change" and yet still be Lucy, the best of both worlds. 

 

I don't see how Lucy could have remotely been a bigger tv star in the 1960s than she was. Even though The Lucy Show never hit #1 there was no question she was still tv's queen even when being outrated in Nielsens by The Beverly Hillbillies or Bewitched, losing Emmys to Mary Tyler Moore or having a new huge star like Carol Burnett come along.

 

What movies could she have possibly done in the 1960s or 1970s?  WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE? THE LION IN WINTER? There wasn't much pickings for an actress over 50 back then and if she somehow had become a major Broadway star in the 1960s the nation at large wouldn't have cared much about it,  Carol Channing couldn't quite translate Broadway stardom to Hollywood and Angela Lansbury really didn't have that great of a movie career in the MAME/SWEENEY TODD era.

Nice SAVE with that last line, LOL!  So so true.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

Desi asked.HER.for.a.divorce...and THAT pissed her off. What IF they stayed married and worked it out? What IF she wasn't such a.BITCH all the time? Her career was THE most important thing ...husband, children, friends....all came second or third. I freakin love the woman but wish she had yeilded more at times.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

What if I directed some later shows...bet they'd be better lol.

[C L A U D E]

Desi asked.HER.for.a.divorce...and THAT pissed her off. What IF they stayed married and worked it out? What IF she wasn't such a.BITCH all the time? Her career was THE most important thing ...husband, children, friends....all came second or third. I freakin love the woman but wish she had yeilded more at times.

When YOU are in that situation, then, you can make these stupid ass statements.

[desilufan2]

Lucy was the type of woman who they call "born married".  Notice how soon she married Gary after meeting him and after the divorce.

 

A single Lucy in her middle age and beyond would have been a VERY unhappy and lonely woman.  I think if anything she would have been vulnerable to leeches who could have destroyed her fortune and her career.   

 

What if Lucy and Desi had stayed together?  She would have been DESPERATELY unhappy.  What part of  "miserable last years of marriage", "crying all day" can't people understand?  If Lucy had "toughened it out" I could easily see her turning to booze just as much as Desi to escape, maybe even being suicidal at one point. 

 

I adore Desi as a comedian and tv personality, and yeah in his youth he was damn sexy  but sorry he was a complete shit as a husband, bedding anything in a skirt.  I'm kind of tired of the Lucy and Desi were soulmates/meant to be fantasy some fans cling to but it's a total illusion.  I'm grateful they did stick it out to have maybe 15 years or so of happiness together and I'm thrilled their union gave us the greatest sitcom of alltime but it was time to throw in the towel and kudos to Lucy for having the strength and courage to do it!!!!

 

I know people don't like Gary Morton for a variety of reasons but Lucy loved him and was happy with him and that's all I care about.  Her was her best husband and just maybe the best husband a woman in her position could have had - one only has to look at the private lives of her contemporaries, most of whom were either alone after 50 or had messy relationships.  Lucy got the nice bland middle-class husband she wanted with Gary.  I would rather have a happy Lucy in her later years with a mediocre career (which she certainly DID NOT have)  than a woman alone or unhappy with a truckload of Oscars and Emmys. 

 I certainly don't dislike Gary because he was "bland".  I love nice easygoing guys. They are great! Im not fond of Gary because the guy was a major tool. I know that sounds mean but its true. I just don't feel like giving Gary a pat on the back for being faithful and not drinking to much. Im GLAD he didn't cheat(as far as we know) but come on. Many many people are doing the right thing and not living in excess. And Gary had reasons to be a good boy.  Im sure Lucy was happy with Gary. I just happen to think she could have found a nice easygoing guy who wasn't a tool. That all.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

CLAUDE. it is a WHAT IF THREAD... These statements aren't stupid ass...they are posing a "What If" scenario....

[Lucyilove]

Desi asked.HER.for.a.divorce...and THAT pissed her off. What IF they stayed married and worked it out? What IF she wasn't such a.BITCH all the time? Her career was THE most important thing ...husband, children, friends....all came second or third. I freakin love the woman but wish she had yeilded more at times.

 

I don't think she was "such a bitch".   Sorry that's the Lucie Arnaz revised edition.  She had a husband who screwed around on her nonstop, was a belligerent drunk and this was going on for ages, I guess she should have been a good little girl and suffered in silence? Don't blame her one damn bit for being angry and frustrated out of her mind with a husband like that.

 

Perhaps she should have been like Mrs. William Holden and just turned a blind eye to her husband's cheating so she could keep his name and her position and give up any hope of love and personal happiness, or perhaps she should have been like Mrs. Henry Fonda and suffer in silence until she could take no more and kill herself. Great options.

 

And re Annaleigh's earlier comments, I don't believe for one minute that Lucy was in love with Desi for the rest of her life.  She had had enough.  I don't think she was the type who enjoyed personal drama, she wanted security and comfort.   Of course she had feelings but I think it was more embarassment and a sense of failure than longing for it to have worked out.  And she was very sentimental so that could be misintrepreted as still holding on but I don't think she was. And I don't think Desi loved her anymore either, even before they were divorced.  You don't treat someone you love like that.  Only a total fool would be unconscious of the fact that they were deeply hurting someone behaving like that.  Desi was every inch the "bitch" Lucy could ever be and he had other issues on top of it.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

What if they stayed married.... Would.a.comeback show in the eighties be successful?

[Annaleigh]

I don't think she was "such a bitch". Sorry that's the Lucie Arnaz revised edition. She had a husband who screwed around on her nonstop, was a belligerent drunk and this was going on for ages, I guess she should have been a good little girl and suffered in silence? Don't blame her one damn bit for being angry and frustrated out of her mind with a husband like that.

 

Perhaps she should have been like Mrs. William Holden and just turned a blind eye to her husband's cheating so she could keep his name and her position and give up any hope of love and personal happiness, or perhaps she should have been like Mrs. Henry Fonda and suffer in silence until she could take no more and kill herself. Great options.

 

And re Annaleigh's earlier comments, I don't believe for one minute that Lucy was in love with Desi for the rest of her life. She had had enough. I don't think she was the type who enjoyed personal drama, she wanted security and comfort. Of course she had feelings but I think it was more embarassment and a sense of failure than longing for it to have worked out. And she was very sentimental so that could be misintrepreted as still holding on but I don't think she was. And I don't think Desi loved her anymore either, even before they were divorced. You don't treat someone you love like that. Only a total fool would be unconscious of the fact that they were deeply hurting someone behaving like that. Desi was every inch the "bitch" Lucy could ever be and he had other issues on top of it.

I completely disagree on the last part. Have you read any books or facts on their relationship after they divorced? How they almost reconciled during Wildcat, the love letters she kept close at hand, the cards and flowers they would still send on Nov 30, and their last phone call to name a few.