Feud (2017) First look at Jessica Lange as Joan Crawford

[Freddie2]

I'm not a Bancroft connesuir, but I think she should have snagged her Best Actress for The Pumpkin Eater; then, of course, it would have deprived Dame Julie of her gold for Mary Poppins. Anyway, the Baby Jane year was crazy crowded with good female performances, perhaps Joan would've gotten nominated during a slower season.

[JoeySanJoaquin]

I wouldn't say Bette's work went downhill after HHSC (which I actually prefer to Baby Jane- I'd probably put Charlotte in my top 10 favorites), she did lots and lots of TV movies, which were solid from what I've seen- and do NOT forget Whales of August!

 

Now Trog, on the other hand...

Like her contemporary Katharine Hepburn, she made several very good (and highly rated as I recall) TVMs, some which may never have seen the light of day if Miss Bette Davis weren't "attached":  Some of my favorites included "Right of Way" with James Stewart; "White Mama" with Eileen Eckhart and "Piano for Mrs. Cimino", among several others. 

 

Would actually love to see most of them again, chiefly for her performance(s). 

[Mot Morenzi]

Ralph Hart is also in Two for the Seesaw, which is also shot down as a movie suggestion in No More Double Dates.

Now THAT I did not know. Very interesting. That whole discussion was basically a plug for Ralph's movie career

[Neil]

Ralph Hart is also in Two for the Seesaw, which is also shot down as a movie suggestion in No More Double Dates.

 

I thought "2 for the Seesaw" had only 2 people in the entire movie, hence the high price of 75 cents per actor.  "The tickets are a dollar and a half..." whereupon Eddie suggests "Ben Hur" (still playing in 1963?) and does remarkably quick math in his head calculating how many actors you get for a penny.   Did the "Double Date"-ers ever decide on a movie?

 

I like "No More Double Dates".  The "barely missing each other at the train station" bit had been done before (and would again), but it wasn't overdone or too contrived.   "NMDD" is an oddity in that it's the only time Lucy and Harry are presented as a couple, more or less.  Dick said "The show didn't need me", but I think his character added something to the show.   Like Charles Lane, I was surprised to learn Dick appeared in so few episodes (6?). Becoming a regular on "The Lucy Show" certainly didn't guarantee you long-term employment!  Look how many regulars and semi-regulars were dropped.  If you were a casual viewer and you caught a 4th season episode, you might not think it was the same series from season 1 because of the change in locale, people and general tone of comedy

 

But back to "Baby Jane" and "Feud":  I don't get the very opening shot where a jack-in-box makes a little girl (Jane?) cry.  Is it supposed to show that Jane was emotionally disturbed early on?

[HarryCarter]

I thought "2 for the Seesaw" had only 2 people in the entire movie, hence the high price of 75 cents per actor. "The tickets are a dollar and a half..." whereupon Eddie suggests "Ben Hur" (still playing in 1963?) and does remarkably quick math in his head calculating how many actors you get for a penny. Did the "Double Date"-ers ever decide on a movie?

 

I like "No More Double Dates". The "barely missing each other at the train station" bit had been done before (and would again), but it wasn't overdone or too contrived. "NMDD" is an oddity in that it's the only time Lucy and Harry are presented as a couple, more or less. Dick said "The show didn't need me", but I think his character added something to the show. Like Charles Lane, I was surprised to learn Dick appeared in so few episodes (6?). Becoming a regular on "The Lucy Show" certainly didn't guarantee you long-term employment! Look how many regulars and semi-regulars were dropped. If you were a casual viewer and you caught a 4th season episode, you might not think it was the same series from season 1 because of the change in locale, people and general tone of comedy

 

The foursome finally agree on seeing Ben-Hur. Two for the Seesaw had been a two character play (with Henry Fonda and Anne Bancroft), but the Robert Mitchum/Shirley MacLaine movie has a bigger cast, which includes Elizabeth Fraser, Ken Berry, and Ann Morgan Guilbert. Ralph Hart is one of the students in Shirley's character's dance class.

 

Dick Martin was in ten episodes, but he had only a couple lines in Lucy Digs Up a Date and no lines in Chris' New Year's Eve Party and Lucy's Sister Pays a Visit.

[Neil]

Everything involving Edwin is wonderful -- and I didn't truly realise how amazing Victor Buono was in this until seeing it on the big screen. Every move he makes, especially taking the tray, and adjusting the genuine Baby Jane Hudson doll (with real hair).

 

From the moment Edwin appears on-screen, he conveys everything about the character and his love/hate relationship with his mother.  It's obviously midday and he's sitting at the piano in his PJs, slurping a glass of milk, lazily looking at the want ads.  As the screen door opens, he does a pre-emptive wince because he knows he's going to hear his mother's uncultured cockney voice with her standard greeting "''hello, Lovey!". Edwin is so MEAN to Deliah, who's oblivious to his sharp tongued tone. 

 

Also noteworthy yet subtle is Edwin's unsuccessful attempts to get Deliah to pronounce secretary right instead of "secatary".  As she's on the phone and of course pronounces it wrong, Edwin silently mouths the correct pronunciation in vain.

 

Jane's ad by the way reads: 

"ESTABLISHED STAR requires accompanist to work on songs and and dance numbers for night clubs, personal appearances, etc.  Must be experienced and versatile musician.  Call Miss Jane Hudson HO5-6259"

 

Other surrounding ads: (CAPS as they appear in ads)

"YOUNG  attractive brunette, 32, new car, would like to meet refined gentleman with means" (I love "NEW CAR")

and

"Matrimonially inclined widow, owner of prosperous 10 acre farm, wishes to meet home loving man who does not have to be possessed of means but enjoys a good appetite and is in his fifties. Object matrimony"  (this ad has no contact information: Whoops!)

and

"Are you lonesome?  Join our party of happy folks. Informal yet dignified. 635 W. 98th St. Thursday nights"  (As far as I know there is not "W. 98th St" in LA. )

[Neil]

How many more episodes of "Feud" are going to air?

Is it going to continue as a series with other famous feuds?

Because there are certainly plenty of them (though none as juicy as Baby Jane's Bette and Joan).

How about "LUCY and JOAN"?

That Joan could be Crawford guesting in "Lost Star".

Could be Blondell "FU, LB!"

Could be DAVIS in the 50s claiming she's America's Queen of Comedy and I Married Joan being America's Favorite Comedy Show.

[Brock]

How many more episodes of "Feud" are going to air?

Is it going to continue as a series with other famous feuds?

 

 

We have five episodes left, four after tonight.

 

Next season has been announced as Feud: Charles and Diana ... which seems dull-y au courant.

[Mot Morenzi]

How many more episodes of "Feud" are going to air?

Is it going to continue as a series with other famous feuds?

Because there are certainly plenty of them (though none as juicy as Baby Jane's Bette and Joan).

How about "LUCY and JOAN"?

That Joan could be Crawford guesting in "Lost Star".

Could be Blondell "FU, LB!"

Could be DAVIS in the 50s claiming she's America's Queen of Comedy and I Married Joan being America's Favorite Comedy Show.

 

I suggested "Feud: Lucille and Joan(s)" as a potential future season a week or so ago, I think. Brock came up with the brilliant idea of Vanda Barra as the narrator. That concept could be fun, especially if Jessica Lang and Kathy Bates reprised their roles from this season.

 

I've seen "Feud: Bill & Viv" mentioned as well. That seems like a no-brainer. The actual season 2 will focus on Charles and Diana and consist of 10 episodes, it's been announced. 

[JoeySanJoaquin]

I suggested "Feud: Lucille and Joan(s)" as a potential future season a week or so ago, I think. Brock came up with the brilliant idea of Vanda Barra as the narrator. That concept could be fun, especially if Jessica Lang and Kathy Bates reprised their roles from this season.

 

I've seen "Feud: Bill & Viv" mentioned as well. That seems like a no-brainer. The actual season 2 will focus on Charles and Diana and consist of 10 episodes, it's been announced. 

I'd like to see one on Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine!!

[Brock]

As soon as I think this show can't get any better, on comes Susan re-enacting the big Andy Williams number. I've never screamed in delight at something on TV before.

[Luvsbway]

I had to watch it twice. It was too perfect.

 

Original is here and just as fabulous.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wo_txjQ3EzY

[Neil]

As soon as I think this show can't get any better, on comes Susan re-enacting the big Andy Williams number. I've never screamed in delight at something on TV before.

 

My sentiments exactly.  Is that Bette's or Susan's voice?  I can't tell for sure.  

People who haven't seen "The Andy Williams Show" performance have no idea how good Susan is in this. 

Was this, Bette's answer to "Chubby Checker", really released as a single 45?  If so, the flip side had to be "Written a Letter to Daddy".

Evidently Bette's assessment of her own singing skills mirrored Jane Hudson's.   Bette wanted the movie Mame, then did a Broadway bound musical (based on "Corn is Green"?), but for sheer showmanship over talent nothing beats the album "Bette Davis Sings" that prompted Bette to go on Johnny Carson for a hard-sell and do a personal appearance/album signing at Tower Records. 

 

This incongruous rock version of "Baby Jane" is missing from the album, but "Written....Daddy" is there complete with the run up of notes "wish you were with us to", then like Jane, she doesn't quite make it to the last note "love".  In the movie, Edwin's reaction is priceless. 

[Neil]

Is there any historical accuracy with Aldrich's assistant pitching her script to Crawford?

 

I'm not up on how oscar nominations happen: who votes for or picks the top 5 in a year?   1962 was definitely a heavy-weight year for Best Actress.  Besides Bette and winner Anne, there were Lee Remick in Days of Wine and Roses; Katherine Hepburn in Long Day's Journey and Geraldine Page in Sweet Bird of Youth, award-worthy performances all.  

But are the tabulations ever released for those that finished out of the top 5.  I've never heard of them being revealed.  It would be interesting to find out how far down the list Joan was.  #6, perhaps?

[Brock]

The actress playing Pauline says her character is a composite of a number of different women.

 

Here's a side by side comparison of the big number:

 

https://twitter.com/secondhandcurls/status/846362695045648384

[Mot Morenzi]

My sentiments exactly. Is that Bette's or Susan's voice? I can't tell for sure.

People who haven't seen "The Andy Williams Show" performance have no idea how good Susan is in this.

Was this, Bette's answer to "Chubby Checker", really released as a single 45? If so, the flip side had to be "Written a Letter to Daddy".

Evidently Bette's assessment of her own singing skills mirrored Jane Hudson's. Bette wanted the movie Mame, then did a Broadway bound musical (based on "Corn is Green"?), but for sheer showmanship over talent nothing beats the album "Bette Davis Sings" that prompted Bette to go on Johnny Carson for a hard-sell and do a personal appearance/album signing at Tower Records.

 

This incongruous rock version of "Baby Jane" is missing from the album, but "Written....Daddy" is there complete with the run up of notes "wish you were with us to", then like Jane, she doesn't quite make it to the last note "love". In the movie, Edwin's reaction is priceless.

 

It's definitely Susan's voice. She's arguably a stronger vocalist than Davis but I'm in awe of how she matched her cadence and delivery. Watching that side-by-side, the two were in perfect sync for the first portion. Absolutely stunning recreation.

 

They did release a single with Letter to Daddy on the B-side, both sung by Debbie Burton. The Daddy recording on that release is NOT the in-film version, but rather one sung in her actual voice. There are videos on YouTube on the record being played.

[Neil]

This side by side is great!   If this person hadn't done it , I was going to do it myself!

The actress playing Pauline says her character is a composite of a number of different women.

 

Here's a side by side comparison of the big number:

 

https://twitter.com/secondhandcurls/status/846362695045648384

[Mot Morenzi]

I hope a future installment will be "Feud: Susan and Debra" - which focuses on Sarandon and Messing's hyperbolic 2016 Twitter war.

[Neil]

I hope a future installment will be "Feud: Susan and Debra" - which focuses on Sarandon and Messing's hyperbolic 2016 Twitter war.

 

I didn't know Susan and Debra had a war.  Is it posted anywhere?  (I don't have Twitter, nor would I know what to do with it).

 

Another little Edwin bit from the original "Baby Jane".  Very easily missed.  I've seen "Baby Jane" I don't know how many times and I never caught this:

Upon their first meeting after Edwin takes the entire tray of cookies, Jane implores him to go into the other room to look at her scrapbooks.  As he gets up, he deftly reaches down to get one more cookie and stuffs it in him mouth.

 

After looking at all the vintage Baby Jane sheet music, Edwin sizes up his opportunity quickly.  Jane is dragging the cart of tea and cookies and Edwin goes to help her "Let me help you.  That's a big burden for such a LITTLE GIRL"  Priceless. 

 

And one more: Edwin is proud of his British heritage and puts on a slight British accent "Actually I'm quite fond of tea.  You might have guessed that I'm British".  Jane: "Oh, really.  How nice for you".  Cut to Edwin's crestfallen face.  Jane wasn't as impressed as he had hoped.

 

The whole first meeting between Edwin and Jane is very well played, very slow moving but engrossing at the same time.  We learn a lot about these two people.  Such a stark contrast of backgrounds.  They're both trying vainly to make interesting conversation but they just don't connect.  My favorite: Jane: "Daddy played piano and banjo".  Awkward silence then Edwin: "Oh.....it's interesting the banjo is a very native American instrument".  That's the best response he can come up with. 

[Mot Morenzi]

I didn't know Susan and Debra had a war.  Is it posted anywhere?  (I don't have Twitter, nor would I know what to do with it).

 

Another little Edwin bit from the original "Baby Jane".  Very easily missed.  I've seen "Baby Jane" I don't know how many times and I never caught this:

Upon their first meeting after Edwin takes the entire tray of cookies, Jane implores him to go into the other room to look at her scrapbooks.  As he gets up, he deftly reaches down to get one more cookie and stuffs it in him mouth.

 

After looking at all the vintage Baby Jane sheet music, Edwin sizes up his opportunity quickly.  Jane is dragging the cart of tea and cookies and Edwin goes to help her "Let me help you.  That's a big burden for such a LITTLE GIRL"  Priceless. 

 

And one more: Edwin is proud of his British heritage and puts on a slight British accent "Actually I'm quite fond of tea.  You might have guessed that I'm British".  Jane: "Oh, really.  How nice for you".  Cut to Edwin's crestfallen face.  Jane wasn't as impressed as he had hoped.

 

The whole first meeting between Edwin and Jane is very well played, very slow moving but engrossing at the same time.  We learn a lot about these two people.  Such a stark contrast of backgrounds.  They're both trying vainly to make interesting conversation but they just don't connect.  My favorite: Jane: "Daddy played piano and banjo".  Awkward silence then Edwin: "Oh.....it's interesting the banjo is a very native American instrument".  That's the best response he can come up with.

 

Yes, a number of articles focused on it. Just search their names and you'll find snippets. Last year so was tense it brought out strong emotions from everyone, and they were no exception.

[Mot Morenzi]

I forgot to mention how much I loved the boardroom scene from episode 4, where Joan meets with her agents. You can tell the shots were set-up to match the famous "Mommie Dearest" boardroom scene, with Joan delivering her precision F-strike to boot.

[Luvsbway]

I forgot to mention how much I loved the boardroom scene from episode 4, where Joan meets with her agents. You can tell the shots were set-up to match the famous "Mommie Dearest" boardroom scene, with Joan delivering her precision F-strike to boot.

The costuming matched too.

[Mot Morenzi]

The costuming matched too.

Yes, the hat especially was spot-on.

[Brock]

Hot damn, an extended version of the original!

 

[Brock]

Bette should have had Cousin Magda turn Miss Crawford over to secret police. No more to tell.