C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 You don't think Cher is big, broad and brassy??? Have you been living under a rock!!?? The woman who plays GYPSY HAS to be a real broad with chutzpah up the wazoo, that's Bette Midler, Ethel Merman, it just works better with a loud brassy old beeatch with stage presence, not a skinny little girl who wears size zero clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 OR Shirley MacLaine! Nope, no good either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Yes, and Ann-Margaret should have played Rose in "Gypsy" in 1962! I remember reading this quote. I don't know how she meant it but it sure sounds like a slam to me. What a catty thing to say if is was and what a ridiculous thing to say if she was serious. I think she just meant that seeing as they slammed Lucy for her age, make up, looks, she thought Cher was still young and was a clotheshorse already and . . . at least she sure could S I N G unlike Lucy who had to talk through the part like Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Yes, and Ann-Margaret should have played Rose in "Gypsy" in 1962! I remember reading this quote. I don't know how she meant it but it sure sounds like a slam to me. What a catty thing to say if is was and what a ridiculous thing to say if she was serious. At first, i thought you were serious, then when i reread it and understood your sarcasm i thought what you said was so true and hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I can see the tagline now: Irene Ryan IS... Mame! I just can't for the life of me, IMAGINE Mame in army boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryCarter Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Ann-Margret was supposedly strongly considered for Louise in the 1962 Gypsy film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 And the Mame title logo that incorporated "Lucy" would have been "Granny/Mame" and Milton Kribs review would have stated "I simply say Granny is Mame. Mame is Granny." Irene Ryan died in 1973 but she would have interesting as Mother Burnside although the "you're MORE than I expected" line would have to have been altered. Irene had one last big hurrah on Broadway stopping the show in "Pippin" with "No Time At All". I've heard the audio of the opening night performance and the applause at the end of this number goes on for a good 5 minutes.... And speaking of a great send-off to an old gal, listen to the response Margaret Dumont gets when she enters in this Hollywood Palace clip. Margaret was 83 and collapsed and died a week after this taping--before the show aired. She looks, sounds and acts almost exactly like she did 35 years earlier. 1965: with bonus footage: Edie Adams for Muriel Cigars! 1930: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h22w6oWMt54 So true and so sad about the great Ms Dumont. As for the great Irene, i heard she stopped the show in Pippin, like Lucy wanting to work to the very end, didn't she die on stage practically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryCarter Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 So true and so sad about the great Ms Dumont. As for the great Irene, i heard she stopped the show in Pippin, like Lucy wanting to work to the very end, didn't she die on stage practically? Apparently, it is an urban legend that Irene Ryan died on stage in Pippin. There's a ton of misinformation and conflicting reports about her death. Many sources say that she had a stroke onstage. However, according to Pippin star John Rubinstein, she became very depressed and homesick in New York and one day, after a Saturday matinee, flew back to California without telling anyone. She was hospitalized with malnutrition upon arriving in Los Angeles. She was suffering from a brain tumor at the time and ended up dying at the hospital of a stroke about six weeks later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Apparently, it is an urban legend that Irene Ryan died on stage in Pippin. There's a ton of misinformation and conflicting reports about her death. Many sources say that she had a stroke onstage. However, according to Pippin star John Rubinstein, she became very depressed and homesick in New York and one day, after a Saturday matinee, flew back to California without telling anyone. She was hospitalized with malnutrition upon arriving in Los Angeles. She was suffering from a brain tumor at the time and ended up dying at the hospital of a stroke about six weeks later. Geez, liked the other story better, reality can be such a bummer. I adored her as Granny, thought she should have gotten a number of Emmys, but Emmys used to go out to more sophisticated roles, unfortunately. At least, they DID nominate her. I remember seeing at the TV Guide awards and her winning best actress or them winning best show and she came on in a white fur all dolled up, she looked like a million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeySanJoaquin Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 The woman who plays GYPSY HAS to be a real broad with chutzpah up the wazoo, that's Bette Midler, Ethel Merman, it just works better with a loud brassy old beeatch with stage presence, not a skinny little girl who wears size zero clothes. What??? It's got nothing to do with one's clothing size! Besides Bernadette Peters is a slip of a thing and she played the part to rave reviews! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONALISAISMONALUCY Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I can see the tagline now: Irene Ryan IS... Mame! or Elizabeth Patterson IS... MAME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeySanJoaquin Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 or Elizabeth Patterson IS... MAME! Okay now we're just getting silly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Okay now we're just getting silly! Ok, i'll bite, DAME EDNA IS MAME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 What??? It's got nothing to do with one's clothing size! Besides Bernadette Peters is a slip of a thing and she played the part to rave reviews! And as much as i LOVE Bernadette Peters, when i heard, i was horrified, she's this sweet tiny little thing and a B I G woman is needed to make that part believable, in my mind at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryCarter Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 And as much as i LOVE Bernadette Peters, when i heard, i was horrified, she's this sweet tiny little thing and a B I G woman is needed to make that part believable, in my mind at least. Although the part was written for Ethel Merman, June Havoc said that Bernadette Peters was closest in type to her mother in real life. I saw Bernadette and she was wonderful. I liked her better than Patti LuPone in the more recent revivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Although the part was written for Ethel Merman, June Havoc said that Bernadette Peters was closest in type to her mother in real life. I saw Bernadette and she was wonderful. I liked her better than Patti LuPone in the more recent revivial. Oh i'm sure Bernie was great, she is at absolutely everything and i find Patti quite bombastic for a smaller woman so i can see her being good at that, as a matter of fact i saw both doing numbers from the show, sorry, maybe it's just a steriotype thing i have in my head, i can only see Merman and then Midler as the best at that part, big, brassy loud as all get out type A personalities that wipe everybody else off the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickee Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Yup, I'll miss it dang it...unless they repeat on into the night? Dang! Don't worry, Joe...got all of her intros and after the film comments too....she was really a fan at this taping and fun as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 I think that's our "bias" talking, that's pretty stiff competition, regardless how "high caliber" the production could have/should have been! Still, I don't think anyone could fault her performance, she obviously gave it her all and it's just a shame this didn't vault her out of the B's and onto the A-list......but then, if that had happened, we may never have known her as Lucy Ricardo and all her subsequent "reincarnations"! Maybe sometimes it's just best not to wonder "what if"!!! I don't know anything about "Pride of Yankees", but "Eileen" was a pretty light-weight nomination. Kate's always fine though I've never seen "Woman" and I don't suppose you can argue with the long-suffering Bette in "Now Voyager" or the dignity of Greer in wartime but I was pretty impressed by Lucy's dramatic skills in this viewing. One of the things that brings Big Street down a notch is that doofus doctor....who cant' even speak grammatically correct English. "Have you ever heard of paranoia? I don't suppose you DID." I think I might have sought out a second opinion. And his head-shaking death sentence from across the room. He turned out to be right, I guess but she just might have only fainted.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 I don't know anything about "Pride of Yankees", but "Eileen" was a pretty light-weight nomination. Kate's always fine though I've never seen "Woman" and I don't suppose you can argue with the long-suffering Bette in "Now Voyager" or the dignity of Greer in wartime but I was pretty impressed by Lucy's dramatic skills in this viewing. One of the things that brings Big Street down a notch is that doofus doctor....who cant' even speak grammatically correct English. "Have you ever heard of paranoia? I don't suppose you DID." I think I might have sought out a second opinion. And his head-shaking death sentence from across the room. He turned out to be right, I guess but she just might have only fainted.... True, her faint like death surprised so many people that many have asked me over the years if she was dead or not, even I had my doubts as a child watching the film. You can't fault HER over that strange script, it's a great Runyon story BUT, that dialogue and those characters so weird but typical of that era and area. Totally agree with you about her competition for nominations at The Oscars that year. First of all, when you look at it seventy years later, you now know which were great performances in great classic films and which have not stood the test of time. Secondly, if you did not have that studio PUSH, and getting all their employees to vote for someone who was now doing many films that were important to their bottom line. Like the year Grace Kelly beat Judy Garland as Garland was washed up in the business but Kelly had three movies coming out from three different studios, so she won Garland's award. Lucy had that affair with the head of Production, Pam Berman, and his wife badmouthing her all over town. But, there is no doubt if the most deserving people got the nominations, then Lucy was a shoe in and should definitely have gotten the award. Playing a bitch from hell was one thing but then even coming around and then even dying at the end, my God, that's an Oscar winning part right there, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Although the part was written for Ethel Merman, June Havoc said that Bernadette Peters was closest in type to her mother in real life. I saw Bernadette and she was wonderful. I liked her better than Patti LuPone in the more recent revivial. I saw Patti in Gypsy and I was one of the very few that was not impressed with her unsubtle scenery chewing portrayal. Maybe I was expecting too much because I really wanted to be bowled over. Try as I might I could not get the vision of what Merman probably did with the part. Nor did I think the actor playing Herbie was right for the role. Too handsome and smart when the part needs a schmiel. (don't know how to spell that but you know what I mean?) Merman does not get the respect she deserves. Her greatness just doesn't translate to other media (TV, movies), but by all accounts of those who saw her live, she was absolutely electrifying onstage. Merman was the only Rose in the original production---no replacements. She played this demanding role 8 times a week for over 2 years and then did a a national, but not extensive tour. "Gypsy" and "Wildcat" ended on Broadway about the same time. Wouldn't you love to be transported in time back to Broadway of 1961? Not only did you have your choice of Lucy or Ethel, you had Mary Martin in Sound of Music, Music Man and My Fair Lady (not with original casts at this point), Phil Silvers and Nancy Walker in "do Re Mi", Burton and Julie in "Camelot", Tammy Grimes in "Molly Brown" and a host of straight plays with Angela Lansbury, Lawrence Harvey,Olivier, many more.... plus Henry Fonda in a little thing called "Critics Choice". With all these heavyweights on the boards at the same time, who was arguably the biggest draw? Lucy...in a mediocre vehicle at that. "Wildcat" rarely played to below capacity during its entire run. Broadway historians like to label "Wildcat" a flop, but if so, it is in a category all by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeySanJoaquin Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Don't worry, Joe...got all of her intros and after the film comments too....she was really a fan at this taping and fun as hell. Thanks, sweetie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 I saw Patti in Gypsy and I was one of the very few that was not impressed with her unsubtle scenery chewing portrayal. Maybe I was expecting too much because I really wanted to be bowled over. Try as I might I could not get the vision of what Merman probably did with the part. Nor did I think the actor playing Herbie was right for the role. Too handsome and smart when the part needs a schmiel. (don't know how to spell that but you know what I mean?) Merman does not get the respect she deserves. Her greatness just doesn't translate to other media (TV, movies), but by all accounts of those who saw her live, she was absolutely electrifying onstage. Merman was the only Rose in the original production---no replacements. She played this demanding role 8 times a week for over 2 years and then did a a national, but not extensive tour. "Gypsy" and "Wildcat" ended on Broadway about the same time. Wouldn't you love to be transported in time back to Broadway of 1961? Not only did you have your choice of Lucy or Ethel, you had Mary Martin in Sound of Music, Music Man and My Fair Lady (not with original casts at this point), Phil Silvers and Nancy Walker in "do Re Mi", Burton and Julie in "Camelot", Tammy Grimes in "Molly Brown" and a host of straight plays with Angela Lansbury, Lawrence Harvey,Olivier, many more.... plus Henry Fonda in a little thing called "Critics Choice". With all these heavyweights on the boards at the same time, who was arguably the biggest draw? Lucy...in a mediocre vehicle at that. "Wildcat" rarely played to below capacity during its entire run. Broadway historians like to label "Wildcat" a flop, but if so, it is in a category all by itself. Why arguably? It was Standing Room Only from the time it opened and she had to give back 165 thousand dollars out of her own pocket when it closed, and this is in 1961 dollars, not the crazy prices being charged today. That was one hell of a post by the way, i've been wanting to know for years what was playing alongside her on the Great White Way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyilove Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Geez, liked the other story better, reality can be such a bummer. I adored her as Granny, thought she should have gotten a number of Emmys, but Emmys used to go out to more sophisticated roles, unfortunately. At least, they DID nominate her. I remember seeing at the TV Guide awards and her winning best actress or them winning best show and she came on in a white fur all dolled up, she looked like a million. I love Irene Ryan!!! It's an absolute crime that her name is so seldom mentioned among the great comediennes in television history. To me, only Lucy can top her; Carol Burnett, Mary Tyler Moore, Eve Arden, Imogene Coca, etc. all wonderful comediennes but Irene is funnier than all of them. It really pisses me off on those "tv's funny ladies" specials they completely ignore her, this woman put her sitcom at or near the top of the ratings for almost TEN YEARS!! Who else has done that but Lucy?? The Emmy Awards were an absolute mess for much of the 1960's, they only gave out one award for series' actresses for years, no matter the format or size of the role, and this no doubt cheated Irene out of some well-deserved Emmys (and probably Lucy lost getting at least one more as well that she would have otherwise had). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I love Irene Ryan!!! It's an absolute crime that her name is so seldom mentioned among the great comediennes in television history. To me, only Lucy can top her; Carol Burnett, Mary Tyler Moore, Eve Arden, Imogene Coca, etc. all wonderful comediennes but Irene is funnier than all of them. It really pisses me off on those "tv's funny ladies" specials they completely ignore her, this woman put her sitcom at or near the top of the ratings for almost TEN YEARS!! Who else has done that but Lucy?? The Emmy Awards were an absolute mess for much of the 1960's, they only gave out one award for series' actresses for years, no matter the format or size of the role, and this no doubt cheated Irene out of some well-deserved Emmys (and probably Lucy lost getting at least one more as well that she would have otherwise had). True, all so true, I adored Irene and that role could not have played as well by anybody else, she became Granny the way Estelle Getty became Bea's mom on Golden Girls. The Beverly Hillbillies remains to this day one of the all time great ratings winners as it was like you said, during it's entire run and Irene was the main reason i tuned in, i love the show to this day. It ranks up there in my perennial top ten shows of all time and always will, not the very last years though, those weren't so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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