mikidiki Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yeah, I was putting it very lightly. "Distant" may be too soft a word. Your description is far more accurate. Hold your horses, bucko! Looks like JoeySoCal also noticed it...so it's not just me! The Cavett interview does not sit well with me. It looked like Lucy was in a funk that day: she barely faces Dick, she literally shrugs off many of his questions/comments and appears generally disinterested to engage or elaborate on any of her comments. I'm not saying it was a HORRIBLE interview. But compared to other interviews I've seen, Lucy seems totally more reserved and cold here and at times as Joey said above: rude. It's not overly apparent but it's sprinkled throughout the interview. It makes me wonder...did Lucy and Dick know each other very well by that point? Had they just met? It looks to me that Lucy simply didn't know Dick well enough and hadn't warmed up to him yet. Lucy comes off as a person to me that keeps her distance until she can really trust the person. The loyalty would then follow. Watching her with Carson or Merv...you get a totally different vibe. I sorta do and don't agree with you - Lucy very often acted like that during interviews - she always seemed to look uncomfortable the way she sat etc, but yes, even more so during the Cavett interview. In this Barbara Walters interview you can only see her head so you don't know what her arms or legs are doing! LOL! In relation to the Gary issue, I understand everyone's thoughts etc. but when it comes down to the crunch, they both loved each other so really, who cares what anyone else thinks - I'm sure they didn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 I sorta do and don't agree with you - Lucy very often acted like that during interviews - she always seemed to look uncomfortable the way she sat etc, but yes, even more so during the Cavett interview. In this Barbara Walters interview you can only see her head so you don't know what her arms or legs are doing! LOL! haha funny point about her arms and legs. Still though, how she answers Babwa's questions says it all for me regarding how comfortable she was with her. You almost couldn't shut her up! She was very open and very willing to talk about any subject at any length she wished. You didn't see that freedom with Cavett. She seemed very careful to keep the conversation very streamlined and succinct. She even politely turned down to tell a story that Cavett had prompted her to share, because she thought it'd be "too long." They had a whole hour! It's not like they had a regimented structure for the whole interview...Dick was willing to let it go wherever Lucy wanted. You could tell how much in awe he was of her. Still, Lucy turned down the offer to share the story. The vibe on that interview is not very warm. Yes, she is very professional and comes off as witty and playful but not exactly inviting. To me, it looks as though Lucy wanted the control of the interview. She needed that distance in order to maintain the authority. For what reason? Again, I'm unsure how much they knew each other at that time (or if Lucy liked Cavett at all!) but I think the reason lies in how Lucy viewed Cavett. Perhaps because she knew how much Cavett could dive into certain subjects with ease (many guests joked that he was a bit like a psychiatrist because of the questions and comments he'd make) so she wanted to keep him at bay before getting into very touchy-feely areas that she didn't want to go in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 haha funny point about her arms and legs. Still though, how she answers Babwa's questions says it all for me regarding how comfortable she was with her. You almost couldn't shut her up! She was very open and very willing to talk about any subject at any length she wished. You didn't see that freedom with Cavett. She seemed very careful to keep the conversation very streamlined and succinct. She even politely turned down to tell a story that Cavett had prompted her to share, because she thought it'd be "too long." They had a whole hour! It's not like they had a regimented structure for the whole interview...Dick was willing to let it go wherever Lucy wanted. You could tell how much in awe he was of her. Still, Lucy turned down the offer to share the story. The vibe on that interview is not very warm. Yes, she is very professional and comes off as witty and playful but not exactly inviting. To me, it looks as though Lucy wanted the control of the interview. She needed that distance in order to maintain the authority. For what reason? Again, I'm unsure how much they knew each other at that time (or if Lucy liked Cavett at all!) but I think the reason lies in how Lucy viewed Cavett. Perhaps because she knew how much Cavett could dive into certain subjects with ease (many guests joked that he was a bit like a psychiatrist because of the questions and comments he'd make) so she wanted to keep him at bay before getting into very touchy-feely areas that she didn't want to go in? Yeah, she did seem on-guard during this interview. Didn't I read somewhere that she gave Cavett a list of things that she would absolutely not discuss on-air with him? The other thing I could tell was that she was very nervous and fidgety, always pulling at her clothes or switching positions in her chair. She didn't seem to do that so much with other interviewers, although I remember during one Merv show she pulled out a compact and started powdering her nose. Pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yeah, she did seem on-guard during this interview. Didn't I read somewhere that she gave Cavett a list of things that she would absolutely not discuss on-air with him? The other thing I could tell was that she was very nervous and fidgety, always pulling at her clothes or switching positions in her chair. She didn't seem to do that so much with other interviewers, although I remember during one Merv show she pulled out a compact and started powdering her nose. Pretty funny. Did she really give him a list of subjects not to bring up? If that's the case, then her demeanor on the show makes perfect sense now. She definitely seems guarded and defensive, if there were certain topics she was uneasy about I can see why she was extra nervous during this interview. I've never seen that interview with Merv that you mentioned--it sounds hilarious, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desilufan2 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I sorta do and don't agree with you - Lucy very often acted like that during interviews - she always seemed to look uncomfortable the way she sat etc, but yes, even more so during the Cavett interview. In this Barbara Walters interview you can only see her head so you don't know what her arms or legs are doing! LOL! In relation to the Gary issue, I understand everyone's thoughts etc. but when it comes down to the crunch, they both loved each other so really, who cares what anyone else thinks - I'm sure they didn't! In part you are correct. Im sure Lucy and Gary did love each other. But I wonder sometimes how much Lucy loved him and how much she loved that she could control him. I have very mixed feelings about Gary. I have read all of the books and have also gone through all of the Archive of American Telivison interviews relating to Desilu and Lucy and Desi. It became very clear to me that everyone loved and greatly respected Desi as a performer and a business man. They ALL said he was brillant. And some fellow performers like carrol o'conner said he was great as well. Many also said that it broke their hearts to see him self-destruct because of his drinking. Gary,however, was another story. None gave him any kind of professional praise. And some openly expressed their dislike for the man. One fellow, I forget his name, REALLY ripped into him. He even hinted that he left the company because he couldn't stand Gary. I do remember that this fellow was a longtime friend of Jimmy Stewarts. And then there was the Sinatra butler James Wright who said that after Lucy died Gary would come over and talk badly about her. I mean AFTER she died!? Why would this butler make it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaleigh Posted August 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I think these interviews bothered her. She came from a time in Hollywood when they didn't have these huge sit down interviews where you are asked everything in life. She was about acting and perfecting her work, I bet she wished she was asked more about that in interviews. Kind of like her college seminars. She seemed to want to have her life private, espec the Desi aspect on low down. The best interviews were the Johnny Carson ones, just pure fun, friendship, and about her work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desilufan2 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I think these interviews bothered her. She came from a time in Hollywood when they didn't have these huge sit down interviews where you are asked everything in life. She was about acting and perfecting her work, I bet she wished she was asked more about that in interviews. Kind of like her college seminars. She seemed to want to have her life private, espec the Desi aspect on low down. The best interviews were the Johnny Carson ones, just pure fun, friendship, and about her work. oh!! Im a BIG johnny carson fan! I wish someone would post some interviews she did with him!! I want to see them so badly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaleigh Posted August 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 oh!! Im a BIG johnny carson fan! I wish someone would post some interviews she did with him!! I want to see them so badly!! I wish there were more on YouTube for us to see! There's only one I'm aware of that Lamarr also has on his YouTube account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Yeah, I was putting it very lightly. "Distant" may be too soft a word. Your description is far more accurate. Hold your horses, bucko! Looks like JoeySoCal also noticed it...so it's not just me! The Cavett interview does not sit well with me. It looked like Lucy was in a funk that day: she barely faces Dick, she literally shrugs off many of his questions/comments and appears generally disinterested to engage or elaborate on any of her comments. I'm not saying it was a HORRIBLE interview. But compared to other interviews I've seen, Lucy seems totally more reserved and cold here and at times as Joey said above: rude. It's not overly apparent but it's sprinkled throughout the interview. It makes me wonder...did Lucy and Dick know each other very well by that point? Had they just met? It looks to me that Lucy simply didn't know Dick well enough and hadn't warmed up to him yet. Lucy comes off as a person to me that keeps her distance until she can really trust the person. The loyalty would then follow. Watching her with Carson or Merv...you get a totally different vibe. I think we're talking about two different interviews, she did more than one with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Honestly, no, I haven't, but how much truth is their in some of these books? At the end it's really just Chinese whispers. The only people who REALLY know the truth is Lucy and Gary. Know what I mean? No, not really, they were there in the house with them and saw and heard things, this isn't gossip, it's fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well, he was Jewish (I'm allowed to say that because I am too) ;-) When they got stamps for gassing up at Desilu, he wanted to know who was getting use of those stamps. Served beer instead of Champagne at the wrap parties, wanted everybody, writers and guest stars to accept low salaries but made sure HE got constant raises in salary. But, we can all be cheap for certain things, Lucy was frugal also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Oh I have read them!! It's so true, he's not somebody I would personally like to meet at all (If he were still alive). Yes, they were in love and happy together as a couple, but he has such an odd personality, he makes you feel... awkward. Desi was still the love of Lucy's life, but Desi could not work together with her so the marriage couldn't work. I think the things like saying he's a "loser" is her just trying to hide the pain maybe. At least that's my interpretation. Not really, she was just stating that everything he had built up, he had to tear down, like Desilu, she had to build it up again before she could sell it, any type of EXCESS drove her crazy and EXCESS is all he knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Carole Cook is a friend of Lucy's who disliked Gary immensely after he tried to push her and some other friends away after marrying Lucy. That's just one example. There are countless stories of other friends and co-workers who just could not see what the hell Lucy saw in Gary because he was so cheap, arrogant, and just plain goofy. All these people couldn't have just gotten together and decided to make up Gary-bashing stories, where there's smoke there's usually fire. I'm sure Gary and Lucy loved each other in their own way. Gary loved her kids and treated them like his own and he brought happiness to Lucy after such a bad marriage to Desi. But the guy is just annoying to me. He's not all that handsome, he's goofy-looking, and he certainly was NOT funny doing stand-up (I will admit that his celeb impressions were very good, however). Not only that, but it was rumored that he cheated on Lucy whenever she was away (read Sharon Thober's book for a tidbit about a call girl), and was deathly afraid of her finding out. So was he a better husband to her than Desi in the end? Maybe a little. He was just better at hiding his indiscretions, methinks. And that's just my 2 cents... She had experienced the shame and humiliation of DIVORCE, she was not going to allow that with gary, so she made sure it worked for them for the rest of their time together, whatever his faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I sorta do and don't agree with you - Lucy very often acted like that during interviews - she always seemed to look uncomfortable the way she sat etc, but yes, even more so during the Cavett interview. In this Barbara Walters interview you can only see her head so you don't know what her arms or legs are doing! LOL! In relation to the Gary issue, I understand everyone's thoughts etc. but when it comes down to the crunch, they both loved each other so really, who cares what anyone else thinks - I'm sure they didn't! Oh but that's where you are so WRONG, Lucy ALWAYS cared about what people thought, that was the main reason she let Desi go, the embarrassment was too great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 haha funny point about her arms and legs. Still though, how she answers Babwa's questions says it all for me regarding how comfortable she was with her. You almost couldn't shut her up! She was very open and very willing to talk about any subject at any length she wished. You didn't see that freedom with Cavett. She seemed very careful to keep the conversation very streamlined and succinct. She even politely turned down to tell a story that Cavett had prompted her to share, because she thought it'd be "too long." They had a whole hour! It's not like they had a regimented structure for the whole interview...Dick was willing to let it go wherever Lucy wanted. You could tell how much in awe he was of her. Still, Lucy turned down the offer to share the story. The vibe on that interview is not very warm. Yes, she is very professional and comes off as witty and playful but not exactly inviting. To me, it looks as though Lucy wanted the control of the interview. She needed that distance in order to maintain the authority. For what reason? Again, I'm unsure how much they knew each other at that time (or if Lucy liked Cavett at all!) but I think the reason lies in how Lucy viewed Cavett. Perhaps because she knew how much Cavett could dive into certain subjects with ease (many guests joked that he was a bit like a psychiatrist because of the questions and comments he'd make) so she wanted to keep him at bay before getting into very touchy-feely areas that she didn't want to go in? Didn't you see that clip of Dick Cavett before the interview aired on that dvd saying she had sent an envelope with the list of taboo subject matter clearly listed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Did she really give him a list of subjects not to bring up? If that's the case, then her demeanor on the show makes perfect sense now. She definitely seems guarded and defensive, if there were certain topics she was uneasy about I can see why she was extra nervous during this interview. I've never seen that interview with Merv that you mentioned--it sounds hilarious, though. Well, there ya go. TOLD YOU SO. She felt comfortable with Merv, he babied all his superstar guests. With Cavett, she respected and admired him, but he was known to be very high brow and she felt at a disadvantage talking to him. She was so insecure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I think these interviews bothered her. She came from a time in Hollywood when they didn't have these huge sit down interviews where you are asked everything in life. She was about acting and perfecting her work, I bet she wished she was asked more about that in interviews. Kind of like her college seminars. She seemed to want to have her life private, espec the Desi aspect on low down. The best interviews were the Johnny Carson ones, just pure fun, friendship, and about her work. Hate to disagree with you but the Merv Griffin ones are the BEST ones, Johnny she watched but she felt he did not LOVE her the way he did many other guests. Johnny proved this when he stopped asking her to guest, the night she dared show up in a black wig after he had introduced her as the most famous REDhead. She then guested when Joan Rivers was the guest host instead. And EVEN appeared on Joan's FOX show that competed with Carson's after he had stopped speaking to Joan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I think we're talking about two different interviews, she did more than one with him. Didn't know there was another interview with Cavett. I was referring to this one: I assume the other interview you mention is much better? It makes you wonder why they chose this interview above for the DVD set if there was a better one to choose from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryCarter Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I assume the other interview you mention is much better? It makes you wonder why they chose this interview above for the DVD set if there was a better one to choose from? Lucy was on Dick Cavett's show twice before. This was her third appearance. On her second show with Cavett, she was joined by Lucie and Carol Burnett. Lucy was actually the last guest on the show that night. The 1974 interview on the DVD set is the only episode where Lucy is the sole guest, which is probably the reason that one was chosen. I always thought she was sitting that way in the 1974 Cavett interview because the lighting was so terrible. I extremely doubt Lucy was "banned" from The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson after she wore the black wig in 1980. She really had nothing to promote from 1981-1983, so there was no reason for her to go on Carson's show. She loved Joan Rivers, so I'm sure when the opportunity presented itself, she agreed to go on when Joan guest hosted in 1984 and 1985. Lucy had things to promote at this time, too. Lucy always loved Johnny Carson and always praised him. She did say to him on the show that she knew that he liked her, but didn't think he was as interested in what she had to say as he was with some other guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desilufan2 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Lucy was on Dick Cavett's show twice before. This was her third appearance. On her second show with Cavett, she was joined by Lucie and Carol Burnett. Lucy was actually the last guest on the show that night. The 1974 interview on the DVD set is the only episode where Lucy is the sole guest, which is probably the reason that one was chosen. I always thought she was sitting that way in the 1974 Cavett interview because the lighting was so terrible. I extremely doubt Lucy was "banned" from The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson after she wore the black wig in 1980. She really had nothing to promote from 1981-1983, so there was no reason for her to go on Carson's show. She loved Joan Rivers, so I'm sure when the opportunity presented itself, she agreed to go on when Joan guest hosted in 1984 and 1985. Lucy had things to promote at this time, too. Lucy always loved Johnny Carson and always praised him. She did say to him on the show that she knew that he liked her, but didn't think he was as interested in what she had to say as he was with some other guests. She really got nervious appearing with Johnny. She even said so on one of her appearances. Its one of the few Lucy Johnny clips Ive been able to find on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Lucy was on Dick Cavett's show twice before. This was her third appearance. On her second show with Cavett, she was joined by Lucie and Carol Burnett. Lucy was actually the last guest on the show that night. The 1974 interview on the DVD set is the only episode where Lucy is the sole guest, which is probably the reason that one was chosen. I always thought she was sitting that way in the 1974 Cavett interview because the lighting was so terrible. I extremely doubt Lucy was "banned" from The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson after she wore the black wig in 1980. She really had nothing to promote from 1981-1983, so there was no reason for her to go on Carson's show. She loved Joan Rivers, so I'm sure when the opportunity presented itself, she agreed to go on when Joan guest hosted in 1984 and 1985. Lucy had things to promote at this time, too. Lucy always loved Johnny Carson and always praised him. She did say to him on the show that she knew that he liked her, but didn't think he was as interested in what she had to say as he was with some other guests. Thanks, i just KNEW there was no snubbing on her part, she liked Cavett and was never RUDE to him. As for Carson, i never said she was banned, i just stated that the last time i saw her on his show was the black wig incident. The man hated to have anything spontaneous on his show, he wanted everything prepared in advance so he could "ad lib" the remarks written for him by his scribes. LOL! Lucy then guested with Joan Rivers when she subbed for Carson as his guest host but really clinched never being asked again while HE was hosting when she dared appear on Joan's FOX show which caused the feud between Joan and Carson and competed against Carson's Tonight Show. Does anyone remember that these shows had blacklists even back then? BY the way, thanks for your post Harry, you like Neil and Brock always come up with great posts full of information i live for. Others here do that too but nobody does it better than you three. I think there's at least another book in you kiddo! NOW THERE WAS A BOOK WORTH READING!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiluforever Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Not really, she was just stating that everything he had built up, he had to tear down, like Desilu, she had to build it up again before she could sell it, any type of EXCESS drove her crazy and EXCESS is all he knew. Ok that is true, i was just making an assumption, lol. But, I will say it was probably extremely awkward for Lucy having to answer all these questions about Desi around Gary. He even intrudes the conversation and answers questions for her saying stuff like "oh it's definitely passed" or similar to that. Once again, another reason as to why Gary should NOT of been there. (Somebody may have already said this, but I'm in a rush and don't have time to look through, lol ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desilufan2 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Ok that is true, i was just making an assumption, lol. But, I will say it was probably extremely awkward for Lucy having to answer all these questions about Desi around Gary. He even intrudes the conversation and answers questions for her saying stuff like "oh it's definitely passed" or similar to that. Once again, another reason as to why Gary should NOT of been there. (Somebody may have already said this, but I'm in a rush and don't have time to look through, lol ) Gary should not have been sitting next to her while Barbara asked Lucy about Desi. It was a mistake. Later Barbara even said it was a mistake. The whole thing was uncomfortable. Not just because Lucy was discussing Desi's self-distructive ways(aka his drinking and constant excess)but because she then couldnt stop talking about him and it was clear she still loved him. Clearly she was still angery and hurt that the drinking and partying ended a great partnership.They made a great team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Ok that is true, i was just making an assumption, lol. But, I will say it was probably extremely awkward for Lucy having to answer all these questions about Desi around Gary. He even intrudes the conversation and answers questions for her saying stuff like "oh it's definitely passed" or similar to that. Once again, another reason as to why Gary should NOT of been there. (Somebody may have already said this, but I'm in a rush and don't have time to look through, lol ) He was the one who negotiated with Babs so maybe he just threw himself in as part of the package, always horning in on HER sucess, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C L A U D E Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Gary should not have been sitting next to her while Barbara asked Lucy about Desi. It was a mistake. Later Barbara even said it was a mistake. The whole thing was uncomfortable. Not just because Lucy was discussing Desi's self-distructive ways(aka his drinking and constant excess)but because she then couldnt stop talking about him and it was clear she still loved him. Clearly she was still angery and hurt that the drinking and partying ended a great partnership.They made a great team. Do what i do, use a black folder to hide him when viewing this otherwise terrific interview. Then it doesn`t make me so an ge ry. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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