Lucy talks illness and Lucy character.

[desilufan2]

Wrong post topic, had to leave something.

Oh I see

[C L A U D E]

I was listening to 2 shows from Stu’s archive over the weekend. In both he talks at length about Life With Lucy. Many things we reiterate it here about it not working, why, etc… Apparently as Gary’s assistant he was asked for his opinion on the scripts and he did not mince words when he told Gary they were terrible. Gary just said Lucy will make it better. From some stories stu tells, Lucy was really unhappy that the weight of the show was falling on her to carry it. She did not want that. I know we were wondering if she talked to Desi at this time about the show as he was sick with cancer and dying. She did call him up many times and seek advice on how to fix it. Whether his advice was taken was unclear.

 

One thought on why this did not work that was often mentioned was that so many people from the olden days were brought back. We know Lucy didn’t like change so having anyone new with her was not going to fly. But these people were past their prime, and she needed some new blood, a different format. It was brought up numerous times that Lucy needed someone her own age to partner with. The Audrey Meadows show was a good example and that is what she needed. Someone to bounce off of (a female I think). Too bad that this was the show that could have turned it around had they continued like that. Stu and maybe others brought this idea up to Gary and offered to add people like Mary Wickes and Mary Jane. Gary’s response was he didn’t want to make it look like a rerun. Um, I think that was the unintentional goal.

 

Stu talked about the John Ritter script and that lousy part at the end with the harmonica. It was suppose to be Lucy who swallows it. Stu told Gary all the reasons why this was terrible, to which he said, Lucy will make it better. Well the table read happens, Gary comes back and says “you got your wish, she won’t do it”. I still want to know why it was any better having John swallow it. The ending to that episode was just terrible and could have been so much better with someone as talented as John.

 

In these interviews Stu did not mention about the network offering to continue the show. I would believe that though, if they have to pay all that money for it anyways, try to at least make a deal to have something instead of paying all this money and not getting product out of it. I do think this was the final nail in the coffin for Lucy as she could handle the personal life things that were happening at that time, death, illness, but to take away what was probably the most important thing to her, her work and make her feel like she could not even come back and be accepted for what she was loved for so many years was just cruel. If the story about the network is true, what was Gary’s motivation in not taking them up on it? Was it all $$$? I would hope that he loved her and understood her more than that, as Lucy never cared about money but always cared about her work. Did he maybe think that it was getting to be too much for her, emotionally and physically? Maybe he finally saw how bad it was and thought it was unfixable.

Maybe he was trying to spare her the continued negative press by pulling the plug. Maybe he didn’t realize that being cancelled was taking away the last bit of her career that she truly loved. I do try to give the guy some credit as he did seem to love her and she really did love him. I don’t think it was a marriage of convenience, but Lucy just did not want to be bothered with the business side and she became so reliant on someone for that, she just could not see that he wasn’t any good at it. Maybe she felt guilt that he felt like number 2 and had to bolster his ego. I always say she listened to the wrong husband on that show.

You are so right about that terrible John Ritter ending, but so wrong about gary and his motives, getting the money in his bank account was all that really mattered to him, even Lucy later asked him why he had pushed so much for that show to happen.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

I was listening to 2 shows from Stu’s archive over the weekend. In both he talks at length about Life With Lucy. Many things we reiterate it here about it not working, why, etc… Apparently as Gary’s assistant he was asked for his opinion on the scripts and he did not mince words when he told Gary they were terrible. Gary just said Lucy will make it better. From some stories stu tells, Lucy was really unhappy that the weight of the show was falling on her to carry it. She did not want that. I know we were wondering if she talked to Desi at this time about the show as he was sick with cancer and dying. She did call him up many times and seek advice on how to fix it. Whether his advice was taken was unclear.

 

One thought on why this did not work that was often mentioned was that so many people from the olden days were brought back. We know Lucy didn’t like change so having anyone new with her was not going to fly. But these people were past their prime, and she needed some new blood, a different format. It was brought up numerous times that Lucy needed someone her own age to partner with. The Audrey Meadows show was a good example and that is what she needed. Someone to bounce off of (a female I think). Too bad that this was the show that could have turned it around had they continued like that. Stu and maybe others brought this idea up to Gary and offered to add people like Mary Wickes and Mary Jane. Gary’s response was he didn’t want to make it look like a rerun. Um, I think that was the unintentional goal.

 

Stu talked about the John Ritter script and that lousy part at the end with the harmonica. It was suppose to be Lucy who swallows it. Stu told Gary all the reasons why this was terrible, to which he said, Lucy will make it better. Well the table read happens, Gary comes back and says “you got your wish, she won’t do it”. I still want to know why it was any better having John swallow it. The ending to that episode was just terrible and could have been so much better with someone as talented as John.

 

In these interviews Stu did not mention about the network offering to continue the show. I would believe that though, if they have to pay all that money for it anyways, try to at least make a deal to have something instead of paying all this money and not getting product out of it. I do think this was the final nail in the coffin for Lucy as she could handle the personal life things that were happening at that time, death, illness, but to take away what was probably the most important thing to her, her work and make her feel like she could not even come back and be accepted for what she was loved for so many years was just cruel. If the story about the network is true, what was Gary’s motivation in not taking them up on it? Was it all $$$? I would hope that he loved her and understood her more than that, as Lucy never cared about money but always cared about her work. Did he maybe think that it was getting to be too much for her, emotionally and physically? Maybe he finally saw how bad it was and thought it was unfixable.

Maybe he was trying to spare her the continued negative press by pulling the plug. Maybe he didn’t realize that being cancelled was taking away the last bit of her career that she truly loved. I do try to give the guy some credit as he did seem to love her and she really did love him. I don’t think it was a marriage of convenience, but Lucy just did not want to be bothered with the business side and she became so reliant on someone for that, she just could not see that he wasn’t any good at it. Maybe she felt guilt that he felt like number 2 and had to bolster his ego. I always say she listened to the wrong husband on that show.

Maybe... MAYBE.. HE knew it would kill her to go out with a FIZZLE and maybe... MAYBE that was HIS way of seeing she got SCREWED by her public.. Maybe he had a plan to put her in the ground so he could hook up with that golf gal.... spouses do strange stuff.. especially when money is involved... I hope she left all to the kids and left him with zilch.....

[desilufan2]

Maybe... MAYBE.. HE knew it would kill her to go out with a FIZZLE and maybe... MAYBE that was HIS way of seeing she got SCREWED by her public.. Maybe he had a plan to put her in the ground so he could hook up with that golf gal.... spouses do strange stuff.. especially when money is involved... I hope she left all to the kids and left him with zilch.....

Naw. I don't like Gary but he wasn't trying to knock her off. Im sure he wanted the show to succed.

[Brock]

Maybe... MAYBE.. HE knew it would kill her to go out with a FIZZLE and maybe... MAYBE that was HIS way of seeing she got SCREWED by her public.. Maybe he had a plan to put her in the ground so he could hook up with that golf gal.... spouses do strange stuff.. especially when money is involved... I hope she left all to the kids and left him with zilch.....

 

Lucy was dead six or seven years before he married the now Widow Morton, and Gary dated a handful of women in between. It wasn't in his best interests to have such a plan. He wasn't the type to live on the fixed income of an inheritance, or his Postcards from the Edge residuals. lol

[Luvsbway]

I posted this last year on another thread but since we have some new members and the topic is hot again I wanted to post what I wrote about this time period again.

 

On to the second crushing event of 86 and death of Desi. Does anyone know how long it was between his diagnoses and his death? I’m think it was all in the same year. I always wonder how much it showed that she still carried a torch for him. I haven’t heard too many stories recounted after Lucy’s death that she told friends regarding her days with him that were super positive with the exception of the business part of their relationship. Was this Lucy’s way of not letting out her true feelings as to not have any of it get back to Gary and/or make herself look better in that she wasn’t going to take the cheating and drinking anymore? Reading the letters in the fore mentioned auction you saw that Lucy really did love Gary and that she realized how good he was for her. Maybe on the boring side, but after the previous 19 years boring is what she wanted. I think all the love letters, notes, etc.. are very telling about Lucy. Obviously these letters are meant for the readers eyes only and are the one true place where you see the unrepressed heart of Lucy. I think when she fell in love she fell very hard. Going back through her book the only man she talks about, other than her husbands, that I feel she really did love was Johnny. Lucy even says that once she got to NYC it took a long time for her to shake that relationship. She would visit Johnny’s family for many years after when she returned to Jamestown. Nowhere else in her book does she talk about any other man she dated this way, even those she was so called “engaged” to which she doesn’t make mention of being engaged to any.

 

I think that these letters over the years show a window to her heart that love sustains. Legally a marriage may have ended but the love hasn’t. The love may change in forms due to necessity, letting go of the past and opening your heart to be loved again, but in reading the Gary letters they are pretty heartfelt 8, 18, 24 years into their marriage. Lucy talks about them taking separate vacations, Palm Springs/Snowmass, and how she already misses him. Who knows what was written or said to Desi in their private conversations. The stories from their friends on the Home Movies about how in the later years when they talked of each other, they cried is very sad. The last phone call story where all Lucy says is “I love you” repeatedly and with more feeling each time is so telling. When he died she had a very strong reaction. Didn’t Lee say in his book that she took to her bed for a week and was inconsolable? Couple that on top of the show being cancelled and Lucy thinking she lost the public’s adoration this has to be one of, if not the lowest point of her life.

 

The Kennedy Center Honors came at one of the best times for her. She needed that diversion, that thing to take her mind of the past few weeks. But you can’t help to think those days in DC being honored and so much of Lucy’s success being shown/talked about in retrospect (and you know there was a lot of ILL praise) it may have had its bad effects too. Sort of reinforcing you are not young anymore, you are not the Lucy from the 1950’s that America grew to love, the love of your life you created those shows with is gone now and you just had a show where you were bringing back a character America loved cancelled after 2 months. Lee’s story of him cracking the joke about Roosevelt and Lucy getting so upset, yelling stuff about how all they do is through awards at you, people you love die and then going in the bedroom and slamming the door conveys a lot. This was a very difficult time for her. My question is who if anyone did she talk to in those days to help her get through this? What friends was she really close to at this time? How do you talk about the cancellation of your show and losing the love of your life with a husband that pushed you into the show, and may secretly resent that you still carried the torch for your past love throughout the whole marriage.

 

So I bring up the much debated Barbara Walters interview. Of course there is bitterness there towards Desi. Do you think that someone so obsessed with her public image is going to sit next to her current husband and talk about the good times with the past love. Lucy will praise Desi up and down for all that he did to make the show and the studio a success but that is ok. That makes her look good. I think that Lucy felt she needed to defend her divorce till the day she died. How she had to make the current marriage look like what she wanted the first one to be. If this second marriage failed it was going to completely tarnish her, as Claude says, General Foods Image. On the Home Movies there are excerpts from an interview (done I assume around the time of Mame, based on the wig) that she seems to candidly talk about the end of the marriage. Does anyone know what this is from and has seen the whole thing?

[desilufan2]

I posted this last year on another thread but since we have some new members and the topic is hot again I wanted to post what I wrote about this time period again.

 

On to the second crushing event of 86 and death of Desi. Does anyone know how long it was between his diagnoses and his death? I’m think it was all in the same year. I always wonder how much it showed that she still carried a torch for him. I haven’t heard too many stories recounted after Lucy’s death that she told friends regarding her days with him that were super positive with the exception of the business part of their relationship. Was this Lucy’s way of not letting out her true feelings as to not have any of it get back to Gary and/or make herself look better in that she wasn’t going to take the cheating and drinking anymore? Reading the letters in the fore mentioned auction you saw that Lucy really did love Gary and that she realized how good he was for her. Maybe on the boring side, but after the previous 19 years boring is what she wanted. I think all the love letters, notes, etc.. are very telling about Lucy. Obviously these letters are meant for the readers eyes only and are the one true place where you see the unrepressed heart of Lucy. I think when she fell in love she fell very hard. Going back through her book the only man she talks about, other than her husbands, that I feel she really did love was Johnny. Lucy even says that once she got to NYC it took a long time for her to shake that relationship. She would visit Johnny’s family for many years after when she returned to Jamestown. Nowhere else in her book does she talk about any other man she dated this way, even those she was so called “engaged” to which she doesn’t make mention of being engaged to any.

 

I think that these letters over the years show a window to her heart that love sustains. Legally a marriage may have ended but the love hasn’t. The love may change in forms due to necessity, letting go of the past and opening your heart to be loved again, but in reading the Gary letters they are pretty heartfelt 8, 18, 24 years into their marriage. Lucy talks about them taking separate vacations, Palm Springs/Snowmass, and how she already misses him. Who knows what was written or said to Desi in their private conversations. The stories from their friends on the Home Movies about how in the later years when they talked of each other, they cried is very sad. The last phone call story where all Lucy says is “I love you” repeatedly and with more feeling each time is so telling. When he died she had a very strong reaction. Didn’t Lee say in his book that she took to her bed for a week and was inconsolable? Couple that on top of the show being cancelled and Lucy thinking she lost the public’s adoration this has to be one of, if not the lowest point of her life.

 

The Kennedy Center Honors came at one of the best times for her. She needed that diversion, that thing to take her mind of the past few weeks. But you can’t help to think those days in DC being honored and so much of Lucy’s success being shown/talked about in retrospect (and you know there was a lot of ILL praise) it may have had its bad effects too. Sort of reinforcing you are not young anymore, you are not the Lucy from the 1950’s that America grew to love, the love of your life you created those shows with is gone now and you just had a show where you were bringing back a character America loved cancelled after 2 months. Lee’s story of him cracking the joke about Roosevelt and Lucy getting so upset, yelling stuff about how all they do is through awards at you, people you love die and then going in the bedroom and slamming the door conveys a lot. This was a very difficult time for her. My question is who if anyone did she talk to in those days to help her get through this? What friends was she really close to at this time? How do you talk about the cancellation of your show and losing the love of your life with a husband that pushed you into the show, and may secretly resent that you still carried the torch for your past love throughout the whole marriage.

 

So I bring up the much debated Barbara Walters interview. Of course there is bitterness there towards Desi. Do you think that someone so obsessed with her public image is going to sit next to her current husband and talk about the good times with the past love. Lucy will praise Desi up and down for all that he did to make the show and the studio a success but that is ok. That makes her look good. I think that Lucy felt she needed to defend her divorce till the day she died. How she had to make the current marriage look like what she wanted the first one to be. If this second marriage failed it was going to completely tarnish her, as Claude says, General Foods Image. On the Home Movies there are excerpts from an interview (done I assume around the time of Mame, based on the wig) that she seems to candidly talk about the end of the marriage. Does anyone know what this is from and has seen the whole thing?

Woow! Thats a lot to take in I certainly hope with all my Gary bashing(and I still say he deserves it) that you don't think im trying to say that their relationship wasn't meaningful. I know it was. But Its just so darn hard to like the dork. And I still dont' know what she saw in him. I do think image was very important to her and for that reason she went out of her way to boast about him and the marriage. But sometimes I can't help but wonder just how much she loved him and how much she loved that she had found someone she could control. Even Frank Gorey(when discussing how she felt about Desi and Gary) refered to Gary as a crutch she could lean on.

[Annaleigh]

I posted this last year on another thread but since we have some new members and the topic is hot again I wanted to post what I wrote about this time period again.

 

On to the second crushing event of 86 and death of Desi. Does anyone know how long it was between his diagnoses and his death? I’m think it was all in the same year. I always wonder how much it showed that she still carried a torch for him. I haven’t heard too many stories recounted after Lucy’s death that she told friends regarding her days with him that were super positive with the exception of the business part of their relationship. Was this Lucy’s way of not letting out her true feelings as to not have any of it get back to Gary and/or make herself look better in that she wasn’t going to take the cheating and drinking anymore? Reading the letters in the fore mentioned auction you saw that Lucy really did love Gary and that she realized how good he was for her. Maybe on the boring side, but after the previous 19 years boring is what she wanted. I think all the love letters, notes, etc.. are very telling about Lucy. Obviously these letters are meant for the readers eyes only and are the one true place where you see the unrepressed heart of Lucy. I think when she fell in love she fell very hard. Going back through her book the only man she talks about, other than her husbands, that I feel she really did love was Johnny. Lucy even says that once she got to NYC it took a long time for her to shake that relationship. She would visit Johnny’s family for many years after when she returned to Jamestown. Nowhere else in her book does she talk about any other man she dated this way, even those she was so called “engaged” to which she doesn’t make mention of being engaged to any.

 

I think that these letters over the years show a window to her heart that love sustains. Legally a marriage may have ended but the love hasn’t. The love may change in forms due to necessity, letting go of the past and opening your heart to be loved again, but in reading the Gary letters they are pretty heartfelt 8, 18, 24 years into their marriage. Lucy talks about them taking separate vacations, Palm Springs/Snowmass, and how she already misses him. Who knows what was written or said to Desi in their private conversations. The stories from their friends on the Home Movies about how in the later years when they talked of each other, they cried is very sad. The last phone call story where all Lucy says is “I love you” repeatedly and with more feeling each time is so telling. When he died she had a very strong reaction. Didn’t Lee say in his book that she took to her bed for a week and was inconsolable? Couple that on top of the show being cancelled and Lucy thinking she lost the public’s adoration this has to be one of, if not the lowest point of her life.

 

The Kennedy Center Honors came at one of the best times for her. She needed that diversion, that thing to take her mind of the past few weeks. But you can’t help to think those days in DC being honored and so much of Lucy’s success being shown/talked about in retrospect (and you know there was a lot of ILL praise) it may have had its bad effects too. Sort of reinforcing you are not young anymore, you are not the Lucy from the 1950’s that America grew to love, the love of your life you created those shows with is gone now and you just had a show where you were bringing back a character America loved cancelled after 2 months. Lee’s story of him cracking the joke about Roosevelt and Lucy getting so upset, yelling stuff about how all they do is through awards at you, people you love die and then going in the bedroom and slamming the door conveys a lot. This was a very difficult time for her. My question is who if anyone did she talk to in those days to help her get through this? What friends was she really close to at this time? How do you talk about the cancellation of your show and losing the love of your life with a husband that pushed you into the show, and may secretly resent that you still carried the torch for your past love throughout the whole marriage.

 

So I bring up the much debated Barbara Walters interview. Of course there is bitterness there towards Desi. Do you think that someone so obsessed with her public image is going to sit next to her current husband and talk about the good times with the past love. Lucy will praise Desi up and down for all that he did to make the show and the studio a success but that is ok. That makes her look good. I think that Lucy felt she needed to defend her divorce till the day she died. How she had to make the current marriage look like what she wanted the first one to be. If this second marriage failed it was going to completely tarnish her, as Claude says, General Foods Image. On the Home Movies there are excerpts from an interview (done I assume around the time of Mame, based on the wig) that she seems to candidly talk about the end of the marriage. Does anyone know what this is from and has seen the whole thing?

Lovely post. So accurate. On the Barbara Walters interview there is one thing that always stands out to me Lucy says 'I still don't understand it.' referring to why it happened the way it did. Then Gary jumps in and said 'I think it's past.' It's like he had to say that to make himself feel better. Gary was what Lucy needed. A comfortable marriage, to feel like husband and wife and to have a friend. A marriage with passion and love is always harder than a simple husband and wife transaction. But to go back to Gary's comment, he knew they still felt that way about each other but didn't want people to see him at the rebound. Even though people forever will.

 

I feel as if she was bitter towards Desi's way of marriage and of course the divorce but bitter towards Desi personally? I think not, she loved him unconditionally. She just didn't understand because they were so in love. Sometimes love isn't enough.

 

Just imagine being so passionately involved with someone and not being able to be with them. It would drive you mad.

[leenorman]

"... I think when she fell in love she fell very hard. Going back through her book the only man she talks about, other than her husbands, that I feel she really did love was Johnny. Lucy even says that once she got to NYC it took a long time for her to shake that relationship. She would visit Johnny’s family for many years after when she returned to Jamestown. Nowhere else in her book does she talk about any other man she dated this way, even those she was so called “engaged” to which she doesn’t make mention of being engaged to any...."

 

 

 

 

I DO know, because I've heard them say it; the DaVita's LOVED Lucille. She was like their 'little girl'; their son, John, was MANY years older than Lucille (who needed a father figure badly in her life, other than grampa 'daddy'); he gave her that; but, TOOK so much more FROM her; and, he was, as was his father, a hairs'breath short of the law most of the time, and I, in my heart, believe that excited her; she loved him THAT way; I truly believe when she met Desi; he became and WAS THE love of her life....ONLY Desi.

 

Too bad the diary she lost in 1942 never re-surfaced; at least none of it surfaced 'p.r.' wise; THAT would be the TRUE STORY of Lucille in HER OWN WORDS. Damn, what a tragedy....

 

I ALSO KNOW THIS: (from the lips of a stock boy, local grocery store, where Johnny 'hung out' in the back room playing cards; and this boy turned man, said to ME, personally, several years ago, when he knew I was researching this chronology), Lucille brought Desi with her to the grocery story to meet 'her' Johnny. It, therefore, had to be in 1956; as that's the only time Desi was HERE. I have told NO ONE else this story. The man who told ME this passed away three years ago; I'm SO glad I got to hear this story; and I know he would not mind me telling it. He NEVER said it was a secret; but, I just loved that he shared it with me.

[Luvsbway]

 

Woow! Thats a lot to take in I certainly hope with all my Gary bashing(and I still say he deserves it) that you don't think im trying to say that their relationship wasn't meaningful. I know it was. But Its just so darn hard to like the dork. And I still dont' know what she saw in him. I do think image was very important to her and for that reason she went out of her way to boast about him and the marriage. But sometimes I can't help but wonder just how much she loved him and how much she loved that she had found someone she could control. Even Frank Gorey(when discussing how she felt about Desi and Gary) refered to Gary as a crutch she could lean on.

 

I don’t think you are saying their marriage wasn’t meaningful. I think what she saw in him was stability. You have to remember Lucy never really had time to recover after the divorce. She went right into Facts of Life after the show ended. During this time she suffered that on set accident and Desi took care of her in Del Mar till she was able to get back to the set. She leaves for NYC to start Wildcat. Desi is around again in Philly to help with the script of that show. In the Desilu book it talks a little about their relationship at this time and mentions that some people thought they were going to get back together. They quote an unknown source as saying this time period was “significant” for them. I love the photo that is in the book of him kissing her at the Facts of Life press lunchon. So now Wildcat is up and running in NYC and Lucy is working herself way too hard. When she met Gary he did the one thing she need so much then was to make her relax and laugh. I’m sure once she had him meet the kids he was great with them. So she starts seeing those qualities in someone that she wanted all along. In the Lucille book it basically came to the conclusion that she was “loaded and lonely” at this time. She’s pushing 50, is the most famous woman on the planet and feels that she let every down with the divorce. Maybe she felt that she had to put a man back in her life to prove something.

 

I think Lucy very much felt like she had to boost Gary. She knew how everyone was looking at him and had to make him look like a person viable enough to be with her. Control yes, she did seem like a very controlling person and I think that was probably a quality she needed since she clearly had no control in the last marriage. As far as a crutch goes, most defiantly a crutch. Reading those letters it is so evident how much she needed him. She needed a stable person to be able to lean on. You have to remember how famous, busy and successful she was at this time. She was the head of a studio, star of a top 5 TV show, working all the time, trying to raise 2 teenagers. She needed the stability/crutch that he provided. I’m not sure who Lucy said this quote to but she knew who she was, “I can give him golf courses, country clubs, etc.. but if I ever see him look at another woman he’s gone”. Many people close to them said he always called and told her where he was, when he would be home. I don’t think Gary did this just to live by her rules. I think they generally cared about each other. Here’s a question. Do you think one of the many reasons she got married so fast was to keep herself from ever possible having a reconciliation? Was she afraid that she would go back to Desi knowing all along that it would not change but if she stayed single the loneliness would take over?

 

 

 

[Luvsbway]

 

Lovely post. So accurate. On the Barbara Walters interview there is one thing that always stands out to me Lucy says 'I still don't understand it.' referring to why it happened the way it did. Then Gary jumps in and said 'I think it's past.' It's like he had to say that to make himself feel better. Gary was what Lucy needed. A comfortable marriage, to feel like husband and wife and to have a friend. A marriage with passion and love is always harder than a simple husband and wife transaction. But to go back to Gary's comment, he knew they still felt that way about each other but didn't want people to see him at the rebound. Even though people forever will.

 

I feel as if she was bitter towards Desi's way of marriage and of course the divorce but bitter towards Desi personally? I think not, she loved him unconditionally. She just didn't understand because they were so in love. Sometimes love isn't enough.

 

Just imagine being so passionately involved with someone and not being able to be with them. It would drive you mad.

 

That “it’s in the past” comment bothers me too, and the way he jumps in with that comment is less about making Lucy feel better but to make himself seem like he’s the important one now, bring the conversation back to them. The way Lucy launches into her discussion on the past marriage is heavy on bitterness (and I do think it was marriage bitterness) ending with her saying “I still don’t understand it”. It was never in the past, it was always there until she died. Watch Lucy’s whole face light up when Barbara asks “is this marriage different?” That’s a very warm smile she gives and she truly looks happy.

[Luvsbway]

"... I think when she fell in love she fell very hard. Going back through her book the only man she talks about, other than her husbands, that I feel she really did love was Johnny. Lucy even says that once she got to NYC it took a long time for her to shake that relationship. She would visit Johnny’s family for many years after when she returned to Jamestown. Nowhere else in her book does she talk about any other man she dated this way, even those she was so called “engaged” to which she doesn’t make mention of being engaged to any...."

 

 

 

 

I DO know, because I've heard them say it; the DaVita's LOVED Lucille. She was like their 'little girl'; their son, John, was MANY years older than Lucille (who needed a father figure badly in her life, other than grampa 'daddy'); he gave her that; but, TOOK so much more FROM her; and, he was, as was his father, a hairs'breath short of the law most of the time, and I, in my heart, believe that excited her; she loved him THAT way; I truly believe when she met Desi; he became and WAS THE love of her life....ONLY Desi.

 

Too bad the diary she lost in 1942 never re-surfaced; at least none of it surfaced 'p.r.' wise; THAT would be the TRUE STORY of Lucille in HER OWN WORDS. Damn, what a tragedy....

 

I ALSO KNOW THIS: (from the lips of a stock boy, local grocery store, where Johnny 'hung out' in the back room playing cards; and this boy turned man, said to ME, personally, several years ago, when he knew I was researching this chronology), Lucille brought Desi with her to the grocery story to meet 'her' Johnny. It, therefore, had to be in 1956; as that's the only time Desi was HERE. I have told NO ONE else this story. The man who told ME this passed away three years ago; I'm SO glad I got to hear this story; and I know he would not mind me telling it. He NEVER said it was a secret; but, I just loved that he shared it with me.

 

I wish she would have talked a little more about Johnny in her book relationship wise because I think he was a major part of her life and influenced a lot of her teenage years. I agree with you in that I think she was looking for someone to replace the void her father left. I’m glad that at her age she didn’t let that relationship keep her from pursuing her dreams of something bigger for we would not even know her today. I know on that return trip in 56’ it was mentioned in the press that she introduced Desi to her 8th grade boyfriend, but that is a harmless thing. I would believe that he met Jonny in 56’ and that it would not have been a publicized thing. That was not an innocent flirtation but a very formidable love affair and I would think a meeting that you would want to keep private. When you say he “took” so much from her what would that be? She had so much taken from her already, father’s death, mom’s away with new husband, being stuck with strict grandparents, grandmother and aunt dying, felling like she needs to take care of those younger than her and this is all before someone was shot in the backyard. She had already lost her innocence very young. I’m pretty convinced that he was the first man she slept with given her rep at this time. The danger thing I can see being very attractive. Small town boredom and wanting so much more excitement out of life. Heck this girl was always trying to hitch hike to NYC. I never knew about this diary you mentioned. What’s the story behind that? And also what became of Johnny?

[desilufan2]

I don’t think you are saying their marriage wasn’t meaningful. I think what she saw in him was stability. You have to remember Lucy never really had time to recover after the divorce. She went right into Facts of Life after the show ended. During this time she suffered that on set accident and Desi took care of her in Del Mar till she was able to get back to the set. She leaves for NYC to start Wildcat. Desi is around again in Philly to help with the script of that show. In the Desilu book it talks a little about their relationship at this time and mentions that some people thought they were going to get back together. They quote an unknown source as saying this time period was “significant” for them. I love the photo that is in the book of him kissing her at the Facts of Life press lunchon. So now Wildcat is up and running in NYC and Lucy is working herself way too hard. When she met Gary he did the one thing she need so much then was to make her relax and laugh. I’m sure once she had him meet the kids he was great with them. So she starts seeing those qualities in someone that she wanted all along. In the Lucille book it basically came to the conclusion that she was “loaded and lonely” at this time. She’s pushing 50, is the most famous woman on the planet and feels that she let every down with the divorce. Maybe she felt that she had to put a man back in her life to prove something.

 

I think Lucy very much felt like she had to boost Gary. She knew how everyone was looking at him and had to make him look like a person viable enough to be with her. Control yes, she did seem like a very controlling person and I think that was probably a quality she needed since she clearly had no control in the last marriage. As far as a crutch goes, most defiantly a crutch. Reading those letters it is so evident how much she needed him. She needed a stable person to be able to lean on. You have to remember how famous, busy and successful she was at this time. She was the head of a studio, star of a top 5 TV show, working all the time, trying to raise 2 teenagers. She needed the stability/crutch that he provided. I’m not sure who Lucy said this quote to but she knew who she was, “I can give him golf courses, country clubs, etc.. but if I ever see him look at another woman he’s gone”. Many people close to them said he always called and told her where he was, when he would be home. I don’t think Gary did this just to live by her rules. I think they generally cared about each other. Here’s a question. Do you think one of the many reasons she got married so fast was to keep herself from ever possible having a reconciliation? Was she afraid that she would go back to Desi knowing all along that it would not change but if she stayed single the loneliness would take over?

YES. I absolutely think thats why she remarried so quickly. I truly believe she thought seriously about a reconciliation. I think they may have been "seeing" each other briefly during the Wildcat run or over the holidays. But then she wanted to get as far away from him as possible remember? Didn't she want to go to Switzerland with the kids?

[desilufan2]

That “it’s in the past” comment bothers me too, and the way he jumps in with that comment is less about making Lucy feel better but to make himself seem like he’s the important one now, bring the conversation back to them. The way Lucy launches into her discussion on the past marriage is heavy on bitterness (and I do think it was marriage bitterness) ending with her saying “I still don’t understand it”. It was never in the past, it was always there until she died. Watch Lucy’s whole face light up when Barbara asks “is this marriage different?” That’s a very warm smile she gives and she truly looks happy.

I don't remember her lighting up when Barbara asked if this marriage is different. She still seemed pretty grim ot me. I DO remember lighting up when Barbara asked if they make each other laugh.

[Luvsbway]

 

YES. I absolutely think thats why she remarried so quickly. I truly believe she thought seriously about a reconciliation. I think they may have been "seeing" each other briefly during the Wildcat run or over the holidays. But then she wanted to get as far away from him as possible remember? Didn't she want to go to Switzerland with the kids?

 

I do remember that running off to Switzerland with the kids thing. I think she just wanted to get as far away from Hollywood as possible because she felt guilty about the divorce. Of course that wasn’t even a possibility until late 61’ as I think Wildcat contract had a year on it. I had never really thought about the remarriage so quickly to stop herself from reconciliation until I thought about it today. It really does explain the quickness. You would think that having come off such bad times, she would want to take a little more time to get to know someone before marrying them. Wasn’t it less than a year time span from meeting to married? If you look at Lucy’s past she was with many guys before she got married the first time. Even rumored (or maybe actually, Broderick Crawford) to be engaged to a few. Heck she was on and off with Al for what like 6 years. From this track record she seemed to be the type to not just run off with the best man she could find at the time but it feels like this is what she did with Gary.

I would love for someone to really say what happened in those Facts of Life and early Wildcat run days. It’s glossed over a lot. The Desilu book is about the only place that really hints at what might have been going on. Remember the story about Lucy having this couple back stage who had found the St. Christopher medallion and wedding ring. She mentions in her book that having that ring in her hand again brought back all the bad times and not the good ones. I think that maybe at this point in time she was really working through some emotions of possibly going back. Not that this event was the tipping point, but it helped to push her towards not getting back together.

 

[desilufan2]

I do remember that running off to Switzerland with the kids thing. I think she just wanted to get as far away from Hollywood as possible because she felt guilty about the divorce. Of course that wasn’t even a possibility until late 61’ as I think Wildcat contract had a year on it. I had never really thought about the remarriage so quickly to stop herself from reconciliation until I thought about it today. It really does explain the quickness. You would think that having come off such bad times, she would want to take a little more time to get to know someone before marrying them. Wasn’t it less than a year time span from meeting to married? If you look at Lucy’s past she was with many guys before she got married the first time. Even rumored (or maybe actually, Broderick Crawford) to be engaged to a few. Heck she was on and off with Al for what like 6 years. From this track record she seemed to be the type to not just run off with the best man she could find at the time but it feels like this is what she did with Gary.

I would love for someone to really say what happened in those Facts of Life and early Wildcat run days. It’s glossed over a lot. The Desilu book is about the only place that really hints at what might have been going on. Remember the story about Lucy having this couple back stage who had found the St. Christopher medallion and wedding ring. She mentions in her book that having that ring in her hand again brought back all the bad times and not the good ones. I think that maybe at this point in time she was really working through some emotions of possibly going back. Not that this event was the tipping point, but it helped to push her towards not getting back together.

Im with you. No one has come up with a clear account of what when on during this time. In the Desilu book they really do hint that they may have been seeing each other for awhile. Its just so interesting. Lucy herself stated that she didn't just fall in love with Gary like she did with Desi. And even more interesting that she was going to Switzerland with the kids AFTER having met Gary. Wasn't it Dede who talked her out of it? I don't know. She just seemed really confused and uncertain about what she wanted to do.

[desilufan2]

Also interesting to note that Desi did go down to see her during the run of Wildcat. Unfortunatly he got stone drunk at what I believe was the opening. God its just awful what happened to him with his drinking!

[C L A U D E]

Also interesting to note that Desi did go down to see her during the run of Wildcat. Unfortunatly he got stone drunk at what I believe was the opening. God its just awful what happened to him with his drinking!

I think he sorta HAD to go down, didn't Desilu bankroll the show and he was Prez of Desilu. Sent her nice flowers though, she is seen holding the OIL WELL decorated with flowers, member that?

[desilufan2]

I think he sorta HAD to go down, didn't Desilu bankroll the show and he was Prez of Desilu. Sent her nice flowers though, she is seen holding the OIL WELL decorated with flowers, member that?

No I don't remember that!

[C L A U D E]

No I don't remember that!

There's this pic of her in her dressing room, in her peignoir, not that bathrobe from TV, LOL! And she is pictured next to Desi in a tux, admiring his floral arrangement.

[Irene Kampen Tripp]

Her love for Gary was "slow growth"... and she LIKED him... before she LOVED him... I guess in her attempt to rid herself of DESI.. she felt she needed a drastic change... and did what she thought she had to do... As far as LUCILLE not saying I LOVE YOU to her children... Lucie hints at her relationship with her mother by saying in the Home Movie ... "There are no perfect families.. THERE AREN'T.. and because we are haunted by shows like The Donna Reed Show and Father Knows Best is no reason to believe everyone's family is like that...." Lucie wanted a good relationship with her mother (something she could get with her father) and seemed not to get it ... at least the way Lucie would have liked to get it.... (I sooo can relate... perhaps that is why I immersed myself in I LOVE LUCY as a teenager... wanting MY family life to be like what I saw on tv).... So Lucille wasn't the best at communicating... and wasn't the best wife and wasn't the best mother... maybe THAT is why she loved her CHARACTER sooo much because THAT character had success at marriage and friendship etc.... I know I find myself thinking LIFE would be so much easier if I had a script and knew what to say ... and all I would have to do is work on the tone and inflection of what I was going to say instead of the CONTENT!

[Taylor]

Her love for Gary was "slow growth"... and she LIKED him... before she LOVED him... I guess in her attempt to rid herself of DESI.. she felt she needed a drastic change... and did what she thought she had to do... As far as LUCILLE not saying I LOVE YOU to her children... Lucie hints at her relationship with her mother by saying in the Home Movie ... "There are no perfect families.. THERE AREN'T.. and because we are haunted by shows like The Donna Reed Show and Father Knows Best is no reason to believe everyone's family is like that...." Lucie wanted a good relationship with her mother (something she could get with her father) and seemed not to get it ... at least the way Lucie would have liked to get it.... (I sooo can relate... perhaps that is why I immersed myself in I LOVE LUCY as a teenager... wanting MY family life to be like what I saw on tv).... So Lucille wasn't the best at communicating... and wasn't the best wife and wasn't the best mother... maybe THAT is why she loved her CHARACTER sooo much because THAT character had success at marriage and friendship etc.... I know I find myself thinking LIFE would be so much easier if I had a script and knew what to say ... and all I would have to do is work on the tone and inflection of what I was going to say instead of the CONTENT!

 

Well good God, Lucy was probably a better mother than most who had to juggle a career, a studio, movies, and all that crap, and still spend time with her kids. Of course no one's perfect, and there isn't a handbook on how to raise kids, but for someone that busy with a crapload of people always wanting her attention, and considering her own upbringing, she was a pretty damn good one. I will never know what Lucie was bitching about her mother not being there for her enough or never feeling loved even though you get told day after day. I never had that kind of attention from my parents and they weren't half as busy as Lucille Ball was in a day. I'm glad Lucie has grown up in recent years and has finally started saying better things about her mother. She really needed a reality check there. She had it better than most.

[C L A U D E]

Well good God, Lucy was probably a better mother than most who had to juggle a career, a studio, movies, and all that crap, and still spend time with her kids. Of course no one's perfect, and there isn't a handbook on how to raise kids, but for someone that busy with a crapload of people always wanting her attention, and considering her own upbringing, she was a pretty damn good one. I will never know what Lucie was bitching about her mother not being there for her enough or never feeling loved even though you get told day after day. I never had that kind of attention from my parents and they weren't half as busy as Lucille Ball was in a day. I'm glad Lucie has grown up in recent years and has finally started saying better things about her mother. She really needed a reality check there. She had it better than most.

Guess she was spoiled like most Hollywood kids. Remember Lucy telling the story of these caravans she would arrange from Thursday night to Monday morning at ten, always taking the kids everywhere and then complaining later on that THEY no longer had time for HER with all their activities?

[Annaleigh]

That “it’s in the past” comment bothers me too, and the way he jumps in with that comment is less about making Lucy feel better but to make himself seem like he’s the important one now, bring the conversation back to them. The way Lucy launches into her discussion on the past marriage is heavy on bitterness (and I do think it was marriage bitterness) ending with her saying “I still don’t understand it”. It was never in the past, it was always there until she died. Watch Lucy’s whole face light up when Barbara asks “is this marriage different?” That’s a very warm smile she gives and she truly looks happy.

She does light up completely. She wanted a normal marriage with the title husband and wife, someone to come home to, confide in, and grow old with. Desi didn't want to grow old, he wanted to have the pleasure in his life, such as drinking and sex but that doesn't work when you are madly in love. Lucy and Gary had the better marriage, but it lacked passion on all levels.

 

Also to the reconciliation thing I read in some Lucy book that Lucy and Desi started to call each other and see each other during the Wildcat days. I believe they were about ready to become serious again and then that couple showed up with Desi's ring. She broke down and cried. All of the bad thoughts came back to her and she decided then and there, they were never going to be able to be together again.

[C L A U D E]

 

Also to the reconciliation thing I read in some Lucy book that Lucy and Desi started to call each other and see each other during the Wildcat days. I believe they were about ready to become serious again and then that couple showed up with Desi's ring. She broke down and cried. All of the bad thoughts came back to her and she decided then and there, they were never going to be able to be together again.

Well, not legally anyway, LOL!